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In this episode of all about business, James Reed speaks with Tom Faulkner, award-winning British furniture designer and founder of Tom Faulkner Limited. They talk about the unlikely journey from redundancy at a record label to running one of the UK's most distinctive handcrafted furniture brands, with showrooms in London and New York, and a workshop in Swindon that has been making things by hand since 1996.
Tom shares the story of how a side hustle in hand-painted tabletops became a serious business the moment he discovered what you could do with metal. He talks about buying a Swindon fabrication workshop for £5,000, inheriting two employees, slowly building a loyal team and a global client base. All through organic growth, word of mouth, and relationships with interior designers.
They explore what it really means to build a premium, handcrafted brand in the modern world: the growing appetite among wealthy clients to understand how things are made, why British manufacturing remains a genuine selling point in the American market, and how Tom navigated the early months of US tariffs with a decision that cost him margin but protected his customer relationships.
Together they also discuss the challenge of succession and legacy for founder-led businesses, why Tom has never chased scale for its own sake, and what he hopes to do next.
Timestamps (Video)
5:38 From Chrysalis Records to Hand-Painted Furniture
9:22 Buying the Swindon Workshop (The £5,000 Decision)
13:38 The Pimlico Road Showroom & London's Design Cluster
16:35 Expanding to New York
21:06 Staying Artisan: Organic Growth & British Manufacturing
26:02 Signature Pieces: Capricorn & the Collections
36:55 Navigating Business Challenges & US Tariffs
43:43 Future Plans: Collaborations, Sculpture & What's Next
57:46 Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
Timestamps (Audio)
4:56 From Chrysalis Records to Hand-Painted Furniture
8:40 Buying the Swindon Workshop (The £5,000 Decision)
12:56 The Pimlico Road Showroom & London's Design Cluster
15:53 Expanding to New York
20:24 Staying Artisan: Organic Growth & British Manufacturing
25:20 Signature Pieces: Capricorn & the Collections
36:13 Navigating Business Challenges & US Tariffs
43:01 Future Plans: Collaborations, Sculpture & What's Next
57:04 Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
Follow Tom Faulkner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-faulkner-b6542018/
Find out more about Tom Faulkner LTD and their products here: https://www.tomfaulkner.co.uk/
Submit your application to Reed’s entrepreneurs fund for a chance to win a £20,000 grant: https://www.reed.com/entrepreneurs
00:00:00:19 - 00:00:11:15
James
Well, today on All About Business, I'm really delighted to welcome Tom Faulkner. Tom is an award winning British furniture designer and the founder of Tom Faulkner Limited, which is renowned for creating distinctive, handcrafted, sculptural luxury furniture. Tom has two showrooms, one in London and one in New York, and he has a fabrication center workshop, I should call it, in Swindon, Wiltshire.
00:00:49:09 - 00:01:04:21
James
So Tom, you're London, New York, Swindon, which I'm very pleased to celebrate. Thank you for coming to talk to me. I understand you're sort of accidental entrepreneur, or you started off doing something else and then change tack. What happened? Tom, tell the story.
00:01:04:23 - 00:01:37:10
Tom
Well, yeah, I guess like lots of entrepreneurs, in a way, it's kind of accidental. And I think kind of luck does play a big part in everybody's life somehow. But yeah, but I well, I once had a job and I worked for a company called Chrysalis Records, which was a well known record company, still is. And I sort of had this idea that I wanted to work in music, and I'd been trying to do that for some time, and but in my spare time, I'd been kind of painting these tabletops, and I developed this kind of way of putting patterns onto tables with lots of color and stencils and stuff, and I and I was
00:01:37:10 - 00:01:58:06
Tom
making them for myself, and I made some for my friends, and I made a few of my mum. And then one, I mean, I unexpectedly, I was made redundant or fired from Chris's record and not quite sure what it was, quite because I didn't. In those days there was no kind of. No one knew anything about the formalities of these things, and I certainly didn't as a kind of 27.
00:01:58:11 - 00:01:59:17
James
Yeah. So what happened?
00:01:59:19 - 00:02:13:05
Tom
Well, the boss, he got me into his office, and he made me wait for 45 minutes while he was on the phone. And then he said, Tom, we've got a part company. And I thought he was leaving. I thought I was.
00:02:13:07 - 00:02:16:04
James
Leaving on it, but it wasn't him.
00:02:16:04 - 00:02:18:13
Tom
It was you. It was actually me. And then I remember I stood on.
00:02:18:14 - 00:02:21:09
James
Well, he made you sit there for 45 minutes before he just told you that?
00:02:21:10 - 00:02:31:16
Tom
Yeah. And it wasn't. There's no notice or anything. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was. Might have been entitled to it or anything anyway, so that was fine. I mean, it was a bit of a blow because I'd spent a long time trying to.
00:02:31:19 - 00:02:32:16
James
He must be quite upset.
00:02:32:17 - 00:02:52:16
Tom
Forge out this, forged this career in in music, which I thought would be great. And part of that. I'd worked for a year in the Virgin Megastore, you know, so I'd done a lot of work towards it anyway. So I stood on a platform at Latimer Road, and I did feel a bit kind of, sort of disheartened and depressed, and then I thought I would have a go.
00:02:52:17 - 00:03:05:22
Tom
I'd start this, you know, my painted tabletops. I thought I'd start a business. And I did, and it was called I, it was called Tom Faulkner, Hand-painted furniture. But at that moment I had orders, you know, I had I remember I had 1,000 pounds worth of orders. So from there.
00:03:05:23 - 00:03:10:10
James
So this was like what would be called these days, a sort of side hustle. Side hustle that became your main thing?
00:03:10:11 - 00:03:12:21
Tom
Yeah, exactly. It's my hobby. And then.
00:03:13:02 - 00:03:19:05
James
And who who? Your early customer. So you mentioned your mother, some friends. So you had people who knew, you knew, liked what you were doing.
00:03:19:07 - 00:03:29:07
Tom
And I would refurbish their entire table. They would give me their old brown table and I would paint it and sort of give back to them in their own colors and, you know, so that.
00:03:29:07 - 00:03:31:16
James
Was good. So these was the like, artworks, really.
00:03:31:17 - 00:03:37:09
Tom
They were artworks in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are still some of them exist in the world, but not.
00:03:37:13 - 00:03:39:24
James
I'm pleased to hear that. So they're particularly precious. Those.
00:03:40:05 - 00:03:41:19
Tom
I imagine they are.
00:03:41:20 - 00:03:44:21
James
Yeah. Yes. Look after me if you've got one and only Tom Faulkner.
00:03:45:00 - 00:04:03:01
Tom
So they were so my friends were buying them. Oh, yeah. And so the important thing. So I started that. And I had once worked for a picture framer previously, and I think that they had a kind of workshop and a and a shop. They had a store in Gray's Inn Antique Market and they had a workshop in Wandsworth.
00:04:03:03 - 00:04:22:09
Tom
But I really liked the whole vibe of the kind of the workshop, and I was making the frames and decorating the mounts and also getting the lunch and doing these things. It was a very small business, so and I love the shop as well, dealing with the public and, and when I thought I'd start my business with the painted tables, I thought I'd really start something like the picture Framers.
00:04:22:09 - 00:04:33:09
Tom
I thought, what a great. That's such a nice kind of thing to be doing. I thought I'd had a little workshop and a shop, and that's sort of what I've kind of got now, right? It's like being a one and, you know.
00:04:33:14 - 00:04:36:23
James
But it was in essence, an artisan approach.
00:04:36:23 - 00:04:58:23
Tom
Making things. And I really like the kind of interaction with the public and the clients with customers. But the key thing that happened for me, so I was painting the painting my tabletops, it was quite a labor intensive sort of thing to do because they were, you know, quite involved the patterns. And but it was really fun finding out how to do it, how to do the lack and how to finish them.
00:04:58:23 - 00:05:17:00
Tom
And, you know, you know, they were very well done in the end. And I really liked the kind of discovery in the craft. And then I was doing an exhibition at the kind of at something at Earls Court, which was a quite a big show. And I'd done other small shows like the Bath Craft Show and things like that.
00:05:17:01 - 00:05:37:01
Tom
And anyway, so I was doing this, this exhibition, and I needed a chair to sit on. And my mother, funny enough, had met these fabricators in. It's a longer story, but somehow she'd met them in in Wiltshire and she said, why don't you go and ask this guy Peter Reed? He'll he'll make you a chair. Because I was talking bout getting a chair to sit on.
00:05:37:02 - 00:05:38:17
James
So Peter was in Swindon, was it?
00:05:38:18 - 00:05:41:02
Tom
Yeah. And I didn't want the plastic chairs they had.
00:05:41:02 - 00:05:41:15
James
At the show.
00:05:41:15 - 00:06:00:06
Tom
So I thought I'd make my own one. I thought how cool to to make a metal chair. And so I went to see them and they made me metal chair. And that was the first thing I made out of metal. And that was kind of a sort of huge kind of moment of discovery in a way. I thought, what you can do with metal and how you can, how they're going to manipulate it, how they bent it.
00:06:00:06 - 00:06:04:18
Tom
And I thought, how great, maybe I could make some metal things myself.
00:06:04:23 - 00:06:06:22
James
Did people comment on your nice chair.
00:06:06:23 - 00:06:07:07
Tom
A lot?
00:06:07:08 - 00:06:09:16
James
Yeah. So you saw that there was interest in it as well.
00:06:09:16 - 00:06:19:20
Tom
It was a big part of the show. I mean, it was kind of. It looks like something. Yeah, it looked important. It had sort of spikes on the back, which was a bit odd and a bit kind of gothic.
00:06:19:22 - 00:06:22:00
James
So it was definitely sort of unique.
00:06:22:01 - 00:06:28:19
Tom
Yeah, it was certainly unique. And I wouldn't recommend having a chair with spikes on on the back, but there are still some of those in existence.
00:06:28:20 - 00:06:29:20
James
So yeah.
00:06:29:21 - 00:06:31:23
Tom
But anyway, so anyway, so that.
00:06:31:23 - 00:06:34:18
James
Was so he, so he just made that few.
00:06:34:20 - 00:06:56:23
Tom
And I thought how amazing. And then I thought I could make bases to go beneath my table. So I suddenly got very interested in what was going on underneath the tables, having before only really been interested in the tops. So I kind of I started making sort of more kind of. I suddenly realized that tables didn't need to have four legs.
00:06:56:23 - 00:07:20:02
Tom
You could make a single pedestal or anything. You could do anything you wanted underneath. I didn't realize because I didn't know anything about furniture, because I wasn't that interested in furniture, because I was interested in surfaces and painting and decoration patterns. So I had no kind of knowledge of the furniture world or any furniture designers or anything. So I hadn't I never really looked that closely any.
00:07:20:02 - 00:07:23:12
James
Further, but it sounds like you suddenly became very interested in furniture.
00:07:23:18 - 00:07:53:15
Tom
I became very interested in, yes, in the kind of shapes and what I could do. Yeah. I think somehow I had to channel my interests into my sort of creative what I wanted to design. I decided to make all my ideas. I decided to make into tables, basically. So they were small scale, but that was it. And then the last thing that happened on the journey of the accidental entrepreneurship is.
00:07:53:17 - 00:08:14:10
Tom
So I was subcontracting to this man in Swindon called Peter Reed, and he had he had his own side hustle, which was septic tank business. Right. And he wanted to spend more time with the septic tanks. So he decided I was his only customer. So he asked me if I'd like to take over his business in Swindon. And it had two employees, one called Nigel and one called Gordon.
00:08:14:12 - 00:08:25:09
Tom
And I thought, that sounds like a fun thing to do. So I took over. I borrowed some money, actually bought all his machines, bought the whole business for 5,000 pounds.
00:08:25:10 - 00:08:27:13
James
Right. And what year was this?
00:08:27:14 - 00:08:30:06
Tom
It's 1996, 30 years.
00:08:30:07 - 00:08:36:22
James
So you're 30 years going almost fantastic. Congratulations on that. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so that was a good bye.
00:08:36:24 - 00:08:38:09
Tom
Wasn't a good bye. Yeah. And I.
00:08:38:13 - 00:08:40:16
James
And I had two, two colleagues. Yeah.
00:08:40:22 - 00:08:54:15
Tom
Yeah. You know I had no idea. So then I was sort of trapped in the world of metalwork. I had to kind of make more things in metal and design more things because I had this workshop. So I was quite committed without really realizing that, you know, that I.
00:08:54:15 - 00:08:58:22
James
Was so. So tell me what happened to Nigel and Gordon, so.
00:08:58:24 - 00:09:02:11
Tom
Well, Nigel, still works for me.
00:09:02:12 - 00:09:04:05
James
Still works after 30 years later.
00:09:04:06 - 00:09:05:02
Tom
30 years later.
00:09:05:02 - 00:09:06:17
James
Well, that's an endorsement.
00:09:06:19 - 00:09:31:17
Tom
That, isn't it? Yeah. He's amazing. Nigel is an extraordinary person, incredibly talented. He had an apprenticeship at British Rail, so he did a really proper kind of three year apprenticeship, so knows everything about metalwork, coppersmith ING, silversmithing, all the trades. And he's very creative thinker. He's really an exceptional person and obviously very kind of loyal to me and the brand and what we've built.
00:09:31:18 - 00:09:36:10
Tom
But he's still making. He doesn't. He's never wanted to be, you know, head of social media or anything.
00:09:36:10 - 00:09:39:07
James
He's literally thank goodness.
00:09:39:09 - 00:09:56:07
Tom
He's still making things. And he does all the product development work. And, you know, if you want to know how to make something, you go to Nigel. And then there's Gordon, who was his sort of sidekick. I sometimes described them as being like Asterix and Obelix because Nigel was like, if you know those characters.
00:09:56:08 - 00:09:58:04
James
I'm very fond of those characters.
00:09:58:09 - 00:10:08:10
Tom
Nigel was like Asterix small, extremely clever, and Gordon with his friend, who was big and strong and faithful, and they kind of worked there. Very interesting.
00:10:08:12 - 00:10:11:04
James
Just a good team like Asterix and Obelix. Exactly.
00:10:11:06 - 00:10:22:00
Tom
And they really united insisted that I that Gordon came with him when I was doing it anyway. So. But Gordon retired ten years ago, I think.
00:10:22:01 - 00:10:23:04
James
Yes.
00:10:23:06 - 00:10:27:20
Tom
And Gordon's son actually works for me now. Nick. Nick ball.
00:10:27:21 - 00:10:28:22
James
Well that's fantastic.
00:10:28:23 - 00:10:35:01
Tom
And his daughter has occasionally worked for me, but she has now gone off to be an actress. Good for her.
00:10:35:02 - 00:10:48:19
James
There we go. Well good luck to her in that career. So. So, but you've developed the business and you've stayed in Swindon over 30 years now. Yeah. So you're obviously committed for fabricating in Britain.
00:10:48:20 - 00:10:49:02
Tom
Yes.
00:10:49:04 - 00:10:53:00
James
And you've grown your team there as I understand what's happening there now.
00:10:53:02 - 00:11:05:12
Tom
Well, we now have I mean in Swindon, I mean there's, there's about I think 30 people in the business altogether and all 31 I can't quite remember. There's 31 people on the WhatsApp group. That's all I know.
00:11:05:12 - 00:11:13:11
James
But that's how you know your your payroll is. Exactly. That's good. So when you join your business, you have to join the WhatsApp group.
00:11:13:12 - 00:11:17:09
Tom
There is a big WhatsApp group. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to. You just. Well yeah.
00:11:17:14 - 00:11:18:21
James
Well actually why wouldn't you.
00:11:18:23 - 00:11:39:02
Tom
Well yeah. But some not everybody. And Nick Paul doesn't have WhatsApp for some reason. I just don't know why not. But anyway so he's not on it. But anyway so there's 30. So there's of those probably there's kind of 24 in Swindon and then the others are in London. So we have the showroom in London where and that's the kind of sales marketing operation.
00:11:39:04 - 00:11:47:05
Tom
But in Swindon they're all you know, that's. Yeah, it's a very nice place to be. It's a lovely workshop. And.
00:11:47:07 - 00:12:02:02
James
And your showroom is in the Pimlico Road in London, and it's in a sort of like there are other businesses in the strip, if that's right, or that are in a related that are related businesses, aren't they. Yeah. Which is interesting sort of cluster of designer.
00:12:02:03 - 00:12:05:04
Tom
Yeah. It's one of the great streets for interior designers.
00:12:05:08 - 00:12:07:15
James
Yeah. Can you describe it to people who may not know it?
00:12:07:16 - 00:12:32:12
Tom
Well, it's well, it's in Belgravia, which is kind of Sloane Square and Victoria, the nearest tube. So. And it was, I think in the 60s, it grew up as a kind of antiques shop, antique shop, kind of street, and became known for that with a few fabric suppliers. And it's slowly, over the years, more and more kind of design fabric interiors companies have opened.
00:12:32:12 - 00:12:53:12
Tom
Then it's very high end. Yeah. And it's actually very unusual now. There aren't I can't think of another street in the world in a way which is kind of quite like that. There isn't one in New York. I don't know of any others. Yeah, it's and our landlords are curating it, I think quite carefully now, but it's kind of.
00:12:53:13 - 00:12:54:15
James
They want to keep it like that.
00:12:54:16 - 00:13:05:03
Tom
They want to keep it like that. And it's also very important to somehow to the American market because the Americans are very aware of it as a street. So it's kind of quite a good thing to have.
00:13:05:04 - 00:13:08:13
James
A so you made a conscious decision to locate in this street.
00:13:08:14 - 00:13:11:07
Tom
When you started in Lots Road, which is near Chelsea Harbor.
00:13:11:08 - 00:13:11:23
James
Yes.
00:13:12:01 - 00:13:38:13
Tom
The design Chelsea Harbor Design Center to be near the interior designer. So we're selling mostly to interior designers. I mean, over the years it's been kind of 50 over 50, but now it's more and more it's kind of 80% interior designers now. So we're in Lots Road near to the Chelsea Harbor Design Center. And then we made a conscious decision to move to Pimlico Road for the brand and to have a high street and not a, you know, a presence on the street.
00:13:38:15 - 00:13:41:21
James
But people can come and visit and have a look, whether they're an interior design or not.
00:13:41:22 - 00:13:55:01
Tom
Yeah. And it's really nice. And it's is very big. You know, the Americans like it. And the a lot of Americans are shopping in the streets and people IT designers will bring their clients to the street to shop. And so it's yeah, it's it's a very, very.
00:13:55:01 - 00:14:14:10
James
Good because I think this is a really interesting business model that was very common in the past. You know, all the jewelers would be in the same district and they sort of still are, I suppose, in Hatton Garden to an extent. But yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Because yes, you know, people can buy from multiple sources at once.
00:14:14:11 - 00:14:17:00
James
They can see what's going on in the same place, I think.
00:14:17:00 - 00:14:17:23
Tom
So, I mean, shoe shops.
00:14:17:23 - 00:14:18:15
James
Do it.
00:14:18:17 - 00:14:20:22
Tom
Famously cluster.
00:14:20:23 - 00:14:21:04
James
Yeah.
00:14:21:05 - 00:14:23:13
Tom
And yeah, I think it's really good.
00:14:23:16 - 00:14:25:16
James
So the cluster strategy is a good one.
00:14:25:17 - 00:14:39:14
Tom
Yeah. And there are. And Mayfair is another kind of district where there's quite a lot of interiors, galleries and that sort of thing, but there's not a shop quite. Also, Pimlico Road is incredibly kind of pretty, and it's a very nice place to walk around.
00:14:39:15 - 00:14:44:24
James
Yeah, which all helps. So you've also got a showroom in New York. How long have you had that?
00:14:45:02 - 00:14:46:15
Tom
We've had that for about three years.
00:14:46:15 - 00:14:48:00
James
So that's relatively new.
00:14:48:01 - 00:14:48:23
Tom
Relatively new.
00:14:48:24 - 00:14:49:24
James
Big step.
00:14:50:03 - 00:15:02:23
Tom
Big step. Yeah. Felt like a big step actually. And New York is an important I mean America is very important to us. And we've been selling in America for quite a long time, like ten years probably.
00:15:02:23 - 00:15:05:16
James
Right. So what outlets were you selling through before.
00:15:05:16 - 00:15:24:24
Tom
The show? Other showrooms. So there's a whole thing about America. There's a very kind of I think, well, sort of evolved ecosystem for interior design. So there are these design centers in every city. So New York has three design centers, right? You know, we only have one in London and that's Chelsea. And I think that's the only one in Europe, probably.
00:15:24:24 - 00:15:39:16
Tom
But America has one in every big city. And the design centers are full of big showrooms with which have what we call multi-line showrooms. So they'll be representing 30 brands and furniture brands, a lot of them.
00:15:39:17 - 00:15:42:11
James
And but this requires a big space.
00:15:42:12 - 00:15:43:06
Tom
It requires a big.
00:15:43:06 - 00:15:47:20
James
Space, big building. Yeah. So there's more of space in America for that than Dallas.
00:15:47:20 - 00:15:52:03
Tom
Design District Design Center is gigantic. And the LA.
00:15:52:05 - 00:15:53:24
James
And you're represented in Dallas and.
00:15:54:01 - 00:15:57:16
Tom
Pacific Design Center in LA is a size an airport in.
00:15:57:16 - 00:15:59:13
James
Right.
00:15:59:15 - 00:16:17:15
Tom
And yeah, so we are represented in LA by somebody called Thomas Lavin, who just started with them. And then I think in probably eight cities now we're represented. So we're in other showrooms, multi-line showrooms. We're a small part of their offer.
00:16:17:18 - 00:16:18:05
James
Yeah.
00:16:18:09 - 00:16:20:12
Tom
But you know each one does a certain turnover.
00:16:20:13 - 00:16:23:06
James
And so people listening in America can find you quite.
00:16:23:07 - 00:16:23:12
Tom
Yeah.
00:16:23:13 - 00:16:24:08
James
Exactly.
00:16:24:10 - 00:16:25:21
Tom
Yeah. So we're in I could listen.
00:16:25:21 - 00:16:31:09
James
More go on this summer. Well that's the challenge. There's some of the big places Dallas.
00:16:31:10 - 00:16:39:17
Tom
Were in LA Dallas, San Francisco, Denver, Atlanta, Chicago Boston can't remember in Washington. And I think.
00:16:39:18 - 00:16:46:01
James
They coming soon if not coming soon. And Florida and now and you've got your showroom in New York.
00:16:46:02 - 00:17:06:20
Tom
And we have our own showroom in New York. So we haven't our own showroom just because New York is such an important area as well. You know, it's our biggest the biggest numbers are in New York. And I think to have our own space was somehow very good for the other showrooms. And to have a kind of, you know, a foothold in America kind of footprint.
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:08:19
James
Helps establish your brand. That's your thinking.
00:17:08:20 - 00:17:24:24
Tom
It's legit in America. And I think that's important. And then everybody in America is actually kind of our clients, you know, they're moving around a lot. They are the kind of people who move a lot. And they are going through New York a lot. And we might be working with somebody in Denver or in Atlanta, you know.
00:17:25:01 - 00:17:26:10
James
We might have multiple properties.
00:17:26:16 - 00:17:29:13
Tom
Yeah. And they're definitely given in New York at some point sort of thing.
00:17:29:14 - 00:17:31:16
James
They they people tend to pop through New York.
00:17:31:17 - 00:17:33:23
Tom
So it's really useful. And I think it's good for brand.
00:17:33:23 - 00:17:36:24
James
And so how are sales in America going.
00:17:37:00 - 00:17:38:07
Tom
Sales America are good.
00:17:38:11 - 00:17:46:05
James
Yeah. Good. Well I'm pleased to hear that. So it's been it's been God bless America. So it's been it's been a good a good move been a good move going to America.
00:17:46:06 - 00:17:47:05
Tom
I mean it has been a good move.
00:17:47:06 - 00:17:48:06
James
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:48:07 - 00:17:52:16
Tom
Definitely good. And you know, they are very.
00:17:52:18 - 00:17:56:16
James
I mean, the economy, America seems to be more buoyant than the economy is more important moments.
00:17:56:18 - 00:17:58:08
Tom
I mean, there were a lot of people in America and.
00:17:58:08 - 00:17:59:11
James
There's a lot of.
00:17:59:13 - 00:18:10:23
Tom
Money. There's a lot of wealthy people. There are a lot of interior designers. And the thing, the whole ecosystem, the thing is, if you if you are decorating your house, you do have an interior design. And that's kind of quite.
00:18:10:23 - 00:18:12:14
James
A normal. That's the normal in America.
00:18:12:14 - 00:18:22:15
Tom
And you're guided by your designer. And there are a lot of people and they might be multiple home owners, and they will have one designer in New York who'll be doing all of them.
00:18:22:17 - 00:18:26:20
James
So a lot of your business is about building relationships with these individuals.
00:18:26:22 - 00:18:28:03
Tom
With interior designers?
00:18:28:03 - 00:18:29:01
James
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:29:02 - 00:18:31:23
Tom
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's really good. We, you know, obviously.
00:18:31:23 - 00:18:35:13
James
Do that. So you have a few loyal designers already by the sound of it.
00:18:35:17 - 00:18:52:00
Tom
Yeah. That's what definitely. Yeah. We have a few who come back. So this I guess in the sort of business sense the interior designers are sort of our salespeople because, you know, we sell to them, and then we hope they're going to sell us to their clients.
00:18:52:02 - 00:18:56:08
James
But do they do they do you do they have a deal? The interior design?
00:18:56:09 - 00:18:58:14
Tom
They have a deal. Yeah, yeah, a discount.
00:18:58:15 - 00:18:59:14
James
They get a discount.
00:18:59:15 - 00:19:01:02
Tom
Something known as a trade discount. Yeah.
00:19:01:03 - 00:19:04:11
James
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's how it works I think generally, isn't it. So.
00:19:04:13 - 00:19:08:22
Tom
And in the. Yeah. With the showrooms anyway there's a, there are discounts.
00:19:08:23 - 00:19:09:18
James
Yeah.
00:19:09:20 - 00:19:11:03
Tom
Good. All there are.
00:19:11:04 - 00:19:15:22
James
There are just go opportunities for negotiation. Yeah.
00:19:16:02 - 00:19:16:20
Tom
That's how it works.
00:19:16:21 - 00:19:37:08
James
But you've you've made what I find actually very appealing about your business is you've maintained your sort of hands on artisan approach. You haven't gone to sort of grow it into a massive company. You've kept no kept it sustainable and, and true to its original.
00:19:37:11 - 00:19:37:20
Tom
Sort of.
00:19:37:21 - 00:19:38:19
James
Yeah, sort.
00:19:38:19 - 00:19:41:02
Tom
Of deliberately. But that's how it is.
00:19:41:07 - 00:19:42:04
James
Not maybe.
00:19:42:06 - 00:19:46:00
Tom
If it. Got growth is good. It's great.
00:19:46:02 - 00:19:46:23
James
It is growing now.
00:19:46:24 - 00:19:50:09
Tom
It's growing and it's grown slowly over the years. And it grows a bit every year.
00:19:50:09 - 00:19:55:23
James
So but I suppose I'm a believer in organic growth in business. Yeah. And it has been like you've done.
00:19:55:23 - 00:19:59:21
Tom
That all organic. It's never been any investment.
00:19:59:21 - 00:20:03:24
James
And since that purchase of the workshop in Swindon.
00:20:04:01 - 00:20:31:23
Tom
So that's good. And I and the kind of making in England is kind of important to me. I mean, not I don't think everything should be made in England, but I like to make things in England, and I do like to kind of, you know, I often sometimes do talks and schools and things and I would, you know, like to encourage younger people or, or to let them know that there's a career to be had with, in, with working with your hands.
00:20:31:23 - 00:20:33:22
Tom
So I think it's just very important.
00:20:33:23 - 00:20:37:06
James
More so than ever, I would say now with AI taking so many.
00:20:37:08 - 00:20:58:11
Tom
Exactly. And also, I think people are very interested in how things are made. I mean, a particular our clients and wealthy people, they, they, they're very interested in things and, and want to know stuff. And they, they love to come to the workshop and see how something gets made. And it is fascinating in a way, like to know how anything is made, you know, a pencil.
00:20:58:15 - 00:20:58:23
James
Yes.
00:20:58:24 - 00:21:10:19
Tom
It's fascinating. And when you come to our workshop, it's really, you know, what they do is incredibly skilled and difficult, and no one really knows who gets a table. They never know already what's.
00:21:10:19 - 00:21:14:19
James
Gone into it. So. So everyone is everyone is different in that they're all handmade.
00:21:14:22 - 00:21:34:10
Tom
Everything's handmade made. Yeah. Things handmade. Yeah. And handmade by human beings. So, you know, a lot of handmade things are just are CNC controlled machines or whatever. You know, with us you're the finishers, you know, they're actually touching the pieces to feel that, you know, they have to know how they feel, to know if they're ready, if they're.
00:21:34:10 - 00:21:42:19
James
Done for people who can't see Tom, I mean, he's he's testing out our table, which, looking at it is not handmade, I'm ashamed to say, but you'd want.
00:21:42:19 - 00:21:43:18
Tom
This edge to feel.
00:21:43:18 - 00:21:47:16
James
Just right. Yeah. To feel you're giving it the once over. I can see because people.
00:21:47:16 - 00:21:50:13
Tom
Don't touch it. So when they're finishing the work, so they think.
00:21:50:15 - 00:22:01:16
James
So this is very important though isn't it. To the customers. Yeah. You can explain how this is done. And it's yeah I think it's the made in England aspect. I imagine that's quite compelling in America.
00:22:01:17 - 00:22:28:23
Tom
I think it's compelling in America and it's British design. They like as well. I mean English, British design. And yeah, I think it's, I mean, it's, I mean the whole Swindon. So I've set up this workshop in Swindon and everyone who works there in my workshop, they're not all kind of welders and inverted commas. They are kind of people who kind of like making things and have done some welding.
00:22:28:23 - 00:22:49:03
Tom
Maybe some are actually are actually welders, but mostly they're kind of people who have done a bit of welding, done a DIY, worked in sort of making or building or something. But and then they come to work for me and then they learn how we make things and the, the methods we use to weld and fabricate kind of essentially what we're doing and finish.
00:22:49:04 - 00:23:12:17
Tom
And we so and we have these specialist painters who are doing the specialist finishes on the furniture. And that's all unique to us. All that technique is totally developed by us. And we've got like 20 different finishes and they're, you know, they've they've all learned how to make things how we like to make them. And I just find it very, you know, I love that that exists in Swindon.
00:23:12:23 - 00:23:27:01
Tom
Yeah. And people, they're making things which you know these I think, you know, beautiful pieces which are then delivered around the world. And, you know, it's a, it's a kind of I hope it's a kind of fulfilling thing to be doing.
00:23:27:03 - 00:23:32:10
James
It sounds it and it sounds like it's a very specific expertise that's been developed over time.
00:23:32:11 - 00:23:34:02
Tom
Yeah, it is now. Yeah, yeah.
00:23:34:03 - 00:23:36:04
James
Because people irreplaceable actually.
00:23:36:05 - 00:23:46:02
Tom
With some bits are. Yes. I'm worried about Nigel as he's, you know older than me right. He's he has to pass. Well he's it's a lot.
00:23:46:05 - 00:23:47:24
James
Of knowledge.
00:23:48:01 - 00:23:51:04
Tom
You know he's good. That has passed most of it on.
00:23:51:09 - 00:23:55:20
James
And you began, as you said, working with wood. But is it now all metal?
00:23:55:21 - 00:24:15:06
Tom
All metal. So tables are they have metal bases but they have wooden tops. And we have a cabinetry department as well. So we, so we make some, we do some cabinetry and wooden tops and we make, we use marble tops and glass tops. Right. So but all the bases and all the chairs are all made of, made of metal.
00:24:15:07 - 00:24:18:05
James
And that's. Do you have a signature piece.
00:24:18:07 - 00:24:19:23
Tom
We do. Yes. Called Capricorn.
00:24:19:24 - 00:24:24:10
James
Capricorn. Could you describe that. So people are. Well I.
00:24:24:10 - 00:24:48:17
Tom
Could describe it. It's kind of, it's well, it's made of two big curves, basically. And it is a sort of classical. The motif is quite classical, but it's quite a contemporary table. And I think that's one of the things why it's become one of the first things I've made in metal, in sheet metal. Sheet metal is our absolute thing.
00:24:48:17 - 00:25:16:17
Tom
That's what we're really best at. So it's one of the first things I ever made. And it's one of the first things Nigel made. And it's become our kind of signature piece because we're just it's. Kind of known for its called Capricorn, so named because it looked like the horns of a goat, which is the star sign. And, yeah, I think what's good about it is kind of very simple and it's contemporary yet as a kind of classical motif, which people don't realize, but it's kind of and it doesn't really fight with.
00:25:16:17 - 00:25:20:13
James
Other things. Could I ask how much would one of those costs typically?
00:25:20:15 - 00:25:38:21
Tom
Good question. I'm never the best person to ask about the prices, but I mean tables on the whole they go, you can get. I think the least expensive table is about probably 6 or 7000, and they can go up to 40,000. And it depends on the material normally and the finish.
00:25:38:21 - 00:25:42:24
James
So your designers would be deciding those details and discussing with your colleagues.
00:25:42:24 - 00:25:45:08
Tom
And it might be made of bronze. So we work with bronze.
00:25:45:08 - 00:25:46:14
James
Well that'd be more expensive.
00:25:46:15 - 00:25:48:15
Tom
If it's bronze and marble it's going to be really expensive.
00:25:48:16 - 00:25:49:16
James
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:49:16 - 00:25:51:16
Tom
But you know they're beautiful materials and and.
00:25:51:17 - 00:25:54:04
James
Sure. And I imagine their long lasting things.
00:25:54:06 - 00:26:01:03
Tom
Well they will last forever. I mean marble generally has already lasted for 4 or 5 million years or whatever. I mean, 250 million, I don't know.
00:26:01:05 - 00:26:05:17
James
It's old. So, so so it's built to last is what you're saying.
00:26:05:21 - 00:26:06:12
Tom
They're built to last.
00:26:06:13 - 00:26:07:01
James
Yeah.
00:26:07:02 - 00:26:33:13
Tom
So important and I, I mean I one of the things I love about this is a side issue about the big the last. I now have quite a lot of people who bought tables from me, you know, like 25 years ago, 30 years ago. And occasionally I meet them and they're still very attached to the pieces, and they kind of talk about the dinner parties or the, you know, they had them before they got married and all the people they have entertained around them and they have all these sort of memories attached to them.
00:26:33:13 - 00:26:37:17
Tom
And I think that's so I kind of really love that. It's just so nice.
00:26:37:23 - 00:26:47:04
James
In listening to you, it seems like you've taken furniture to a different level. You know, tables are sort of utility becomes a work of art or a part of the family.
00:26:47:05 - 00:26:49:11
Tom
Sort of. They exactly. They can.
00:26:49:12 - 00:26:51:02
James
Be history.
00:26:51:04 - 00:26:51:20
Tom
Yeah, I think.
00:26:51:20 - 00:27:00:14
James
They are. I mean, my table, you're looking at it, what with some disdain. It is not a work of art or part of our family's history, but maybe we should. We should replace it with one of yours.
00:27:00:20 - 00:27:03:08
Tom
Well, it's very good, you know, it's very nice. And it has.
00:27:03:14 - 00:27:05:12
James
It does its job, it's functional.
00:27:05:14 - 00:27:08:08
Tom
And, you know, you spend a lot of time around.
00:27:08:10 - 00:27:10:12
James
It's true. I haven't really thought of it like that.
00:27:10:13 - 00:27:26:00
Tom
Some tables we make there. Yeah. They're the heart of the home. You're doing your homework on them. You're doing your emails. You're doing your artwork. If you're young, anyone, you're kind of doing everything at at the big kitchen table. And I love that I love that.
00:27:26:01 - 00:27:30:04
James
So that so your signature piece is a is a table called Capricorn.
00:27:30:05 - 00:27:32:22
Tom
It's called Capricorn. Yeah. But we have others.
00:27:32:24 - 00:27:34:03
James
So are there other key.
00:27:34:04 - 00:27:35:12
Tom
So we have key design. We have.
00:27:35:14 - 00:27:35:24
James
What were the.
00:27:36:03 - 00:27:59:11
Tom
Other nine key designs motifs. So everything I do starts with a kind of a two dimensional silhouette basically. So when you look at all of our designs, you can see the silhouettes. And we have one called Ava, which is a very strong silhouette made. It's very kind of geometric. We just made one called Sky, which I love, which looks kind of like a ring almost.
00:27:59:13 - 00:28:28:08
Tom
It's very kind of monumental and looks so inspired by Barbara Hepworth and. Right. You know, I love that collection. We have one called Papillon, which is the French for butterfly, in case you didn't know. And it looks, it sort of has veins. It's kind of butterflies. And the others X is a big one X, right. Memphis coffee table is a hit.
00:28:28:09 - 00:28:33:24
James
Memphis. The coffee table. Right. They like family members. They've got all got their own names. Yeah.
00:28:34:00 - 00:28:38:16
Tom
And Memphis has recently got a new friend. It's a side table with the coffee table.
00:28:38:18 - 00:28:39:23
James
What's Memphis friend called.
00:28:39:23 - 00:28:45:00
Tom
Well it's it's called Memphis. The side table as opposed to Memphis. The coffee.
00:28:45:00 - 00:28:46:00
James
Table okay.
00:28:46:02 - 00:28:52:20
Tom
So that's good. That's been a very good you know, there's there's a few. There are you know, we have a big collection but there are few pieces which somehow stand out.
00:28:52:20 - 00:29:03:14
James
So you say you've just introduced sides. Is it hard to predict the popularity of what's coming next? That's quite a skill, isn't it? Deciding what you're going to produce next. Because the big investment in these items, I imagine.
00:29:03:15 - 00:29:23:09
Tom
Yeah. Well, it is a kind of skill, but it's not a skill I have really acquired, I don't think. I mean, because I don't really never really made things kind of make what I like to make. And that's what I've done mostly. And when we launch a new collection, it's because I, it's an idea I've had and I think it will look great.
00:29:23:12 - 00:29:24:08
Tom
And that's kind of.
00:29:24:12 - 00:29:28:09
James
But how many items would you make for it to be a collection. You have to make a commitment.
00:29:28:11 - 00:29:51:10
Tom
Well, there's normally if it's a collection it would be a dining table and occasional table. So console side table, coffee table. That's enough for a collection. So three pieces would be a collection right. But I mean I do. There's an argument for thinking a bit more carefully about what people actually want and then making something, you know, we we kind of do that a bit.
00:29:51:11 - 00:29:54:23
James
But mostly some people say to you, I'd love something that did.
00:29:55:00 - 00:29:58:02
Tom
There's a bit of that. But mostly I think.
00:29:58:04 - 00:30:00:16
James
It's not bespoke, is it? From what you're saying you're.
00:30:00:16 - 00:30:21:13
Tom
Doing, we have a whole collection called avenues, which is very simple kind of square frames, which are very useful. They're kind of square. Their coffee tables, console tables, side tables. And we you can have them with glass, marble, wood, any sort of finish. So they're very utilitarian somehow. But they're really nice, really well made. And you know, they're just right.
00:30:21:15 - 00:30:42:22
Tom
But I think what I've, what I've made over the years have been things I want to make for myself. Kind of. That's why I made them because I think this is a it looks beautiful and it's, you know, I hope people will buy it. And I think, you know, if you like something, you've got to assume somebody else might like it.
00:30:42:24 - 00:30:49:11
James
It's important to feel fulfilled in one's work, though, isn't it? Yeah. So if you didn't like it, that would be problematic.
00:30:49:11 - 00:30:59:13
Tom
That would be problematic. Yeah, yeah. Isn't a piece I'd make apart from possibly 1 or 2, but it was really a piece that I that I don't like.
00:30:59:15 - 00:31:03:24
James
I mean, I mean, you've been doing this for 30 years. I'm assuming that you.
00:31:04:01 - 00:31:04:07
Tom
Yeah.
00:31:04:08 - 00:31:08:02
James
And also feel very sort of connected to your work. I mean, yeah.
00:31:08:03 - 00:31:21:17
Tom
And I think I've often said before these it's a bit like music, you know, when you hear a piece of music for the first time, you kind of whatever, and then you hear it again and you like it, and then the more you hear it, the more you like it. But sometimes the more you hear it, the more you don't like it.
00:31:21:18 - 00:31:28:22
Tom
But you know, when you actually almost everything I've made, the more I look at them, the more I think, yeah, that's actually quite good.
00:31:28:23 - 00:31:30:03
James
Right.
00:31:30:05 - 00:31:32:14
Tom
And some you know, I really think, oh.
00:31:32:17 - 00:31:35:24
James
So it's not like you look back at your early stuff. I think, oh I don't like that anymore.
00:31:36:00 - 00:31:52:02
Tom
No not really. No. And some of the very early stuff, because that's our 30th anniversary, which I just mentioned. But some of the very early stuff, the paint, the patterns and things, the painted stuff, I'm thinking of maybe doing something with those which for a long time I was a bit kind of embarrassed by them, in a way.
00:31:52:02 - 00:32:04:24
Tom
They seemed a bit naive somehow, but. And because I was young, but now they seem to just be part of the story and, and actually, I think they're, you know, they've got something. And, you know, I did like them at the time, so.
00:32:05:01 - 00:32:21:02
James
So why not? Yeah, I think it's interesting the, the, the story is so much a part of the. Yeah, the product is listening to you. I mean, buying a table this whole journey of your is fundamental to its sort of appeal isn't it.
00:32:21:04 - 00:32:22:06
Tom
For the for the customer.
00:32:22:07 - 00:32:23:01
James
Yeah I think so.
00:32:23:02 - 00:32:25:09
Tom
Yeah I think so. Yeah. And people and.
00:32:25:13 - 00:32:30:14
James
People the fact your commitment to it, your love of what you do and it feels fundamental to me.
00:32:30:15 - 00:32:37:23
Tom
Yes. And people do spend a lot of time choosing a table. I mean, it's, you know, they are investment pieces as we call them.
00:32:38:02 - 00:32:46:15
James
Yeah. Investment pieces sounds good. So you can make a big or a small investment, but it will be. But it does sound long lasting.
00:32:46:16 - 00:32:55:17
Tom
Their long lasting. They're made of metal. I mean they are going to last for a long time. I don't know if you've ever tried to get rid of a metal table. It's quite difficult. I mean, you can't you can't chop it up for firewood.
00:32:55:18 - 00:32:58:20
James
No, that's true. And no one else can either.
00:32:58:22 - 00:33:00:13
Tom
So they are literally I mean, they.
00:33:00:13 - 00:33:02:19
James
All live, so they become family heirlooms, I guess.
00:33:02:20 - 00:33:05:11
Tom
I mean, in theory, they will last. I mean.
00:33:05:12 - 00:33:06:13
James
Several lifetimes.
00:33:06:13 - 00:33:07:16
Tom
Many, many lifetimes.
00:33:07:16 - 00:33:08:15
James
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:08:16 - 00:33:10:05
Tom
I dread to think how many, though.
00:33:10:06 - 00:33:15:01
James
So do you have much repeat business? I suppose your interior designers will be the repeat.
00:33:15:03 - 00:33:20:00
Tom
Ideally, yeah. We don't get people replacing, but, we do do some refurbishments.
00:33:20:02 - 00:33:21:08
James
Yeah.
00:33:21:10 - 00:33:22:09
Tom
But no.
00:33:22:09 - 00:33:27:07
James
On the whole. And do they tend to be for home and families or do you do business, business premises.
00:33:27:09 - 00:33:30:00
Tom
Domestic, what we call residential.
00:33:30:02 - 00:33:30:12
James
Yeah.
00:33:30:14 - 00:33:43:08
Tom
And we do a little bit for hotels and sort of more boutique type hotels that might do an entrance table or something like that. But we never do kind of all of the bedside tables for a big hotel. We couldn't compete. And anyway.
00:33:43:09 - 00:33:58:09
James
Yeah, no. Fair enough. So what are your biggest challenges at the moment? Sort of running a business that fabricates in Britain, cells in the United States? I mean, I can think of several things that might be. Yeah. Well, exercising your mind and.
00:33:58:11 - 00:34:28:17
Tom
Yeah, well, the state of the world as it's known is one thing. It seems to be, you know, the sort of confidence in the economy. And we're very connected to the housing market, really, because, you know, we're people are often I mean, it's kind of there have been ups and downs over the years and there have been, you know, the the financial crisis was down and that at that time we were very doing a lot of what used to be called show house furniture.
00:34:28:17 - 00:34:48:09
Tom
So for property developers and the loads and loads of show houses being built all the time, we were always doing a table in six chairs for something. Whatever show has and the crash, that kind of all stopped. So all the show houses, they just stopped doing them, right. So that was a problem then. But now, you know, there's interest rates are high.
00:34:48:09 - 00:35:09:10
Tom
And it's been that's sort of, I think problematic. And there has been a bit of kind of clients putting things on hold. Not quite sure I'm going to make a decision in six months and you get a bit of that. So that's always a challenge. But I think you just feel you kind of had to ride that and hope that it will come back.
00:35:09:10 - 00:35:15:01
Tom
And you know, you're making something that you believe in and the high value and high quality. So,
00:35:15:03 - 00:35:17:12
James
How have you handled the tariffs with America?
00:35:17:17 - 00:35:39:14
Tom
Tariffs were fast. They were kind of okay. So they weren't that high 10%. Yeah. And there's always been a line on the invoice of, you know, shipping customs tax something. And in the first month we actually paid the tariffs for the customer. So I think it was an April and we just we said, don't don't panic. We'll pay the tariffs until the end of April.
00:35:39:16 - 00:35:41:07
James
So that hit your margin.
00:35:41:09 - 00:35:53:20
Tom
Hit our margin. But it was just we thought it would be kind of a good sort of good thing to do it, because I think otherwise there was a bit of a freeze on because everyone's kind of panicked a bit. Yeah. So I think that was quite good that.
00:35:53:20 - 00:35:55:01
James
We did. Things have settled down.
00:35:55:01 - 00:36:05:05
Tom
To fine. Yeah. And it's been fine ever since. And I think particularly in America, people say that, you know, Americans, if they want their stuff, they want their stuff. Right. And that's, you know.
00:36:05:07 - 00:36:06:23
James
They and they want your stuff.
00:36:07:03 - 00:36:19:00
Tom
And and we are it is a unique product. You know, you can't get it anywhere else. It's a long time long term investment, you know. So I think but you know, there were 10% so they weren't 45%.
00:36:19:01 - 00:36:20:23
James
No.
00:36:21:00 - 00:36:23:22
Tom
So that was a flutter.
00:36:23:24 - 00:36:24:23
James
Right.
00:36:25:00 - 00:36:26:08
Tom
00:36:26:10 - 00:36:28:16
James
And so do you spend quite a lot of time in America, Tom.
00:36:28:22 - 00:36:31:14
Tom
I do, yeah, I spend quite a lot of time in America. I've just been there, actually.
00:36:31:15 - 00:36:33:10
James
So you spend time with customers?
00:36:33:11 - 00:36:35:04
Tom
Yeah, I like to. Yes.
00:36:35:05 - 00:36:36:18
James
Where did you go most recently?
00:36:36:19 - 00:36:50:19
Tom
Well, I went to New York last week just to see the showroom and catch up with the people. We have two people in New York only. Well, we have two and three in total. If you can't, them all but one is.
00:36:51:00 - 00:36:52:14
James
They all on the WhatsApp group?
00:36:52:15 - 00:37:06:20
Tom
They are. Yes, actually. And anyway, so I have 2 or 3 people in America, but I went to New York to see the showroom and to meet some clients and just do a little bit of networking. So I love to go to New York..
00:37:06:22 - 00:37:18:05
James
And joking apart, the WhatsApp group for a business of a certain size sounds like a pretty good idea. I mean, do you put a lot of stuff on it? Do you agree with it? Quite a bit.
00:37:18:07 - 00:37:26:17
Tom
I put on things like, you know, if we've got a piece in a magazine or something, I'd put that on so everyone can see it, because the workshop.
00:37:26:19 - 00:37:29:04
James
So it's like a company newsletter in the old days sort of thing.
00:37:29:05 - 00:37:40:08
Tom
So we've had this often, this divide between London and the workshop, which is kind of we have team days and everything gets there. But, you know, the workshop is big, there's lots of people and they often don't know actually what's happening. You know, you know.
00:37:40:09 - 00:37:41:13
James
That unless someone tells them.
00:37:41:14 - 00:37:58:03
Tom
Yeah, you know, they know they're making for something for a show, they don't really know what the show is or whatever. So we try and let people know. So we have a monthly, we have a, I think a three monthly all staff meeting where we all get together. And I could tell everybody sort of what the plans are, what's been happening.
00:37:58:05 - 00:38:16:12
Tom
And then on the WhatsApp I put on, if there's a nice Instagram post or something, I might put that on to the WhatsApp. And the main problem is the birthdays, because everyone seems to have a birthday virtually every day, as far as I can see. So we've, we've had we've had a kind of almost a moratorium on birthdays.
00:38:16:12 - 00:38:18:10
Tom
I think no one's really mentioned them.
00:38:18:12 - 00:38:23:00
James
Crowding the WhatsApp group, is it? Yes, I think so. If you have one, everyone's got to go on.
00:38:23:01 - 00:38:29:16
Tom
Yeah. I think we decided not to do them and then or someone. Anyway, I hardly seen one this year. So anyway, that's.
00:38:29:16 - 00:38:34:12
James
What birthdays come and go then. Yeah. But I suppose that's how the, how the groups use.
00:38:34:12 - 00:38:42:02
Tom
But so like everything we have a showroom WhatsApp group and a workshop only WhatsApp group. Right. And you know, who knows, maybe lots of other groups.
00:38:42:04 - 00:38:52:01
James
Probably lots of other groups. The party group. So, so what in terms of your future plans are you most excited about? What are you looking at doing next?
00:38:52:03 - 00:38:55:23
Tom
Well, question. Well, this is our 30th anniversary.
00:38:55:24 - 00:38:57:07
James
Yeah, it sounds like a big moment.
00:38:57:08 - 00:39:10:00
Tom
So we trying to do some kind of collaborations and things for this year. So as yet on most of them unconfirmed, but that's an idea. And I think.
00:39:10:05 - 00:39:19:12
James
When you say collaboration, these sort of collabs are often spoken about and design and retail. So a couple of examples would be interesting, just the things you might have done in the past.
00:39:19:13 - 00:39:47:18
Tom
And I think, well, we haven't done that many, but ones which we'd like to do this year, something with a fashion brand. Right. So something kind of in our space in a way, but not quite, but has a reach of a similar kind of audience. And I wanted a jewelry collaboration, possibly with someone to make some jewelry, and I'd like to collaboration with some sort of upcoming up and coming brands and some established brands.
00:39:47:20 - 00:39:48:10
James
Right.
00:39:48:11 - 00:39:51:09
Tom
So I think and one with a photographer.
00:39:51:10 - 00:39:56:13
James
So anyone listening who might be interested in reaching out to you should think Tom's open to collaboration.
00:39:56:14 - 00:40:17:21
Tom
Yeah. No. That definitely. Yeah. The, have a very good a friend in New York who's a photographer who we might do something with him that's just talking about last week while I was there. So doing some kind of cool. He he takes amazing kind of art, fine art type photos doing something with him. And so some little, little things like that.
00:40:17:21 - 00:40:19:15
Tom
But otherwise, I mean.
00:40:19:17 - 00:40:24:16
James
And the purpose of that part, I mean, it sounds fun, but so extend the reach of the brand.
00:40:24:17 - 00:40:25:11
Tom
Is in the reach.
00:40:25:12 - 00:40:25:17
James
Yeah.
00:40:25:18 - 00:40:46:04
Tom
Yeah, it's all about the reach because I think that's one thing we haven't been we spend a lot of time concentrating on our, what we call our gold customers, our silver customers. So we have sort of groups of people who are important and you know, but I think we need to spend more time just trying to spread the word and, you know, find reach new people.
00:40:46:04 - 00:41:00:18
Tom
And you can obviously do that on social media quite easily. But I think collaborations are seem to me like an obvious way to do it. If you've got someone with a big, a big following and you do something together, hopefully there'll be some cross-pollination.
00:41:00:20 - 00:41:05:16
James
That seems to be the way it works because a lot of people do them, so imagine they get upside from it.
00:41:05:16 - 00:41:08:15
Tom
I know it's funny, isn't it, how they're the thing.
00:41:08:17 - 00:41:25:05
James
To do. They are. The collabs are very popular. So you also understand maybe putting something important into Swindon. Oh yeah. So so installation or is that right or. Well what are you what's happening in England. Because I think this has been your home for a long time hasn't it.
00:41:25:07 - 00:41:47:22
Tom
So yes, Swindon is important to me and it's kind of often kind of slightly people don't. I mean, it has not a great reputation somehow. I'm not quite sure why it's got like that. But anyway, it's an amazing piece of the world. You know, part of the world in Wiltshire and beautiful country all around. And it is culturally not that much going on in it.
00:41:47:23 - 00:42:05:15
Tom
But anyway, so I'm very I'm very fond of Swindon, and everyone who works for me virtually lives in Swindon. And, you know, it's a it's been a great place for me. And there is a redevelopment happening at the moment, a kind of regeneration of one of the shopping centers. And I hope we're going to put a sculpture into a kind of public sculpture into it.
00:42:05:15 - 00:42:07:20
Tom
And I've been talking to the planners.
00:42:08:00 - 00:42:09:00
James
Oh, excellent.
00:42:09:02 - 00:42:18:08
Tom
You know, the landscape designers about it and having some ideas. And so that would be great. There's nothing I'd like more than to have a public sculpture in Swindon.
00:42:18:09 - 00:42:37:17
James
Well, I really hope that happens, because I'd be very pleased to see that too, as I go there quite regularly. Yeah, that would be a great addition. Swindon, I'm told, is it is often used by marketeers as a typical British. That's right. Town. Yeah. So the demographics sort of pretty much mirror the country. I don't know, that's still the case, but I don't know.
00:42:37:19 - 00:42:39:15
Tom
But it has gone down. I mean.
00:42:39:21 - 00:42:42:16
James
He's had a tough time reading some factories closing and things.
00:42:42:16 - 00:42:43:22
Tom
Were the Honda closed. That was five.
00:42:43:23 - 00:42:44:24
James
Thousand.
00:42:45:01 - 00:43:09:08
Tom
People, a lot of people. And then, you know, I think like all towns, you know, the shopping center, the, the, the, the holiday street is being hollowed out, but mostly the shopping center, which when I first moved there, had a House of Fraser in it and, and a Jessop photographers and a Burtons menswear what it had. And now it literally really only mostly has charity shops.
00:43:09:08 - 00:43:14:24
James
And unfortunately that's a that is a pattern that's repeated in many times.
00:43:15:04 - 00:43:28:09
Tom
And I think it's a bit like that. So I'm not sure what they're going to, you know, I'm not sure what any towns do actually to put that right. But people talk about residential. You need to get people to go and live in these unused office spaces.
00:43:28:10 - 00:43:36:19
James
So that might be the next chapter. But that takes a lot of investment, doesn't it? Yeah.
00:43:36:21 - 00:43:41:16
Tom
One of the The Signal House, which I don't even know, Swindon railway station.
00:43:41:21 - 00:43:42:14
James
Is.
00:43:42:16 - 00:43:48:24
Tom
Office block, which is being derelict now 15 years. I mean, it's been empty and now derelict and it's kind of it's.
00:43:49:01 - 00:43:50:08
James
So now the station.
00:43:50:09 - 00:43:53:12
Tom
One of the kind of landmarks of Swindon. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:53:14 - 00:43:59:24
James
Derelict. Yeah. No, I mean why don't they remove. Yeah I don't know. It's sad.
00:44:00:01 - 00:44:03:07
Tom
It's pretty big I, I, I imagine that somebody will redevelop it at some point but I.
00:44:03:07 - 00:44:16:09
James
Don't know. But ideally into residential I suppose. Yeah. So in terms of your next developments in the business. How are you planning some new ranges as well as these or new?
00:44:16:13 - 00:44:16:22
Tom
I want to.
00:44:16:22 - 00:44:19:13
James
Do something. Collections. Something 30th collection.
00:44:19:14 - 00:44:39:12
Tom
Yeah, I want to do something for 30 years. So some kind of a new piece. But what I'm interested in at the moment is sculpture, because I'm thinking of going beyond, because throughout my career as a my creative career, I've had to make things which are.
00:44:39:14 - 00:44:54:10
Tom
A channel, all of my creative ideas into tables, basically. So I'm now going to start channeling more of them into sculptures. Right? So I'm interested in doing that. And we do make a sculpture, which is quite successful, and I'd just like to do work a bit bigger and work with.
00:44:54:11 - 00:44:57:06
James
So what's the sculpture you do make? It's called.
00:44:57:07 - 00:45:21:22
Tom
Arizona and it's kind of it looks like a well, it's sort of inspired in a way, by the Brancusi infinite column. I don't know if you know that it's in Romania. It's very tall. It's just a it's a kind of geometric shape. Right. And it does it does very well. And I'd like to do more sculpture because I just find it kind of interesting.
00:45:21:23 - 00:45:25:18
James
So. And is that the same customer that would be.
00:45:25:20 - 00:45:27:18
Tom
Yeah we do. Exactly.
00:45:27:23 - 00:45:29:21
James
So you're diversifying in a sense.
00:45:29:22 - 00:45:52:16
Tom
Yeah, in a way. I mean, there are lots of things I would quite like to do but never quite get around to doing it, you know, like limited edition collections or, you know, more art pieces. And then the sculpture might be a bit more of an art project, but. So I would like to have sculpture for 30 years, and maybe something with one of the very earliest collections, which is which we don't make any more.
00:45:52:17 - 00:45:54:22
Tom
So to resurrect something from the past.
00:45:55:00 - 00:46:10:13
James
You said something interesting about the sort of customer that they're very fascinated in, how things are made and the sort of craft involved is this is this something that's becoming more widespread? It's interesting to me. There seems to be.
00:46:10:14 - 00:46:11:18
Tom
Yeah, I think it is.
00:46:11:19 - 00:46:13:17
James
So what's happening here? Yeah.
00:46:13:19 - 00:46:26:16
Tom
I think it is. I think because there's more access to it, there's something called you might spot it on its RTS behind the scenes. Right. People are very interested in that people and people are showing it a lot now on, on Instagram.
00:46:26:17 - 00:46:27:03
James
Behind the.
00:46:27:03 - 00:46:40:04
Tom
Scenes, behind the scenes. How do you make this? And yeah, some of it, you don't want to kind of ruin the magic, but a lot of it is the magic, I think. And I think.
00:46:40:06 - 00:46:58:04
Tom
Once you know what goes into something, you know, if you see people often come into our. Well, I remember actually 20 years ago or 30 years ago, I had a shop in East London, and the guy came and he said, what, six, 2,000 pounds for a few bits of bent metal and walked out. I thought, well, actually know what's gone into that.
00:46:58:04 - 00:47:29:21
Tom
And, and, you know, a lot of work. And so when you see what they do and what because everything we make starts with a few old bits of metal, you know, like like nothing. Few sheets of metal lying on the floor and something I love. Sometimes I go to the workshop like there'll be loads of bits of metal lying on the floor on the racks, and they just did bits of metal and then come back in a few weeks and they've all kind of turned into these pieces of furniture or whatever, which are going to, you know, exist in the world forever.
00:47:29:21 - 00:47:45:20
Tom
And they've been there's a, there's a real magic, I think, in the creative process from zero to something. And they really, you know, and I think the more people know about that, the better. And I think somehow there is an appetite.
00:47:45:22 - 00:47:57:09
James
That's very interesting. So it sounds to me if people are involved in making things, this behind the scenes sort of aspect is something that's very useful for them to consider as well. I mean, you've found that helpful.
00:47:57:10 - 00:48:03:20
Tom
Yeah. No. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, it's really good. And we have workshop tours. So if you're a designer or a member of the public, you can.
00:48:03:22 - 00:48:06:04
James
How often are they.
00:48:06:06 - 00:48:10:00
Tom
Just whenever people ask if they can come. And then we try and combine it with some.
00:48:10:00 - 00:48:11:18
James
Other people so they can come onto your website and.
00:48:11:18 - 00:48:20:10
Tom
Ask, and then we're having an open day in a few weeks right where we are. We've invited people if they'd like to come. So our kind of favorite designers and.
00:48:20:11 - 00:48:25:02
James
Other designers. Fantastic. So what's your web address, Tom? If anyone wants to do that, it's. Get Ahold of you.
00:48:25:05 - 00:48:27:08
Tom
Tom Faulkner UK.
00:48:27:13 - 00:48:31:09
James
Right. So if they wanted to join in and they could come and find you that.
00:48:31:10 - 00:48:39:10
Tom
And I think that's good. So the open days I like that idea. Do you remember. Well you might remember playschool, but I'm not sure if anybody.
00:48:39:10 - 00:48:42:04
James
Else does. Yeah, I do remember playing school. There were three different.
00:48:42:04 - 00:48:52:20
Tom
Windows through the round window, and it was so fascinating. You'd go through the round window and you'd see how milk bottle was made. It's just really interesting. It is. No one knows how anything is made.
00:48:53:00 - 00:48:57:17
James
Yeah, that's very true. It's sort of people lost touch with that and maybe they're trying to refine it.
00:48:57:21 - 00:49:00:16
Tom
And more people must have lost touch because.
00:49:00:18 - 00:49:03:23
James
Yeah, I mean it applies to so many things of food. I mean, it's the most obvious.
00:49:03:24 - 00:49:04:21
Tom
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:04:23 - 00:49:06:22
James
Yeah. Just sort of consume.
00:49:06:23 - 00:49:07:23
Tom
So much stuff.
00:49:07:24 - 00:49:08:15
James
Yeah.
00:49:08:20 - 00:49:14:22
Tom
Yes, exactly. I mean, in the old days, I mean, there's a time if you bought a suit, you'd have to go and see someone to make it for you. Probably.
00:49:14:23 - 00:49:15:19
James
Yes.
00:49:15:21 - 00:49:20:04
Tom
I don't know, but yeah. So we're getting more removed from.
00:49:20:06 - 00:49:26:04
James
So you're a big part of your approach is to reconnect people with that. Yeah. Knowledge and interest.
00:49:26:05 - 00:49:26:20
Tom
Yeah I think so.
00:49:26:21 - 00:49:31:08
James
Yeah. And you've found that works as a customer relationship strategy.
00:49:31:10 - 00:49:32:10
Tom
Yeah. Exactly.
00:49:32:12 - 00:49:35:07
James
Yeah.
00:49:35:09 - 00:49:46:00
Tom
And I think it's good for the workshop and I've been around a lot of workshops as well myself. And not all of them are great. You go to one someone's, you think this is a bit odd? Almost. What's happening here in the how?
00:49:46:02 - 00:49:47:05
James
In what sense?
00:49:47:06 - 00:50:05:20
Tom
Well, sometimes how the person who's walking around talks to the people there or how it's not a great atmosphere or they're not being, I don't know, some I've been to a few and some are really good. And when you go to a nice workshop where everyone feels you can tell they're kind of valued and enjoyable, they do. It's, you know, you, you think, great, I'd love to.
00:50:05:21 - 00:50:13:16
James
I feel the same when you walk into an office. You know, I walk into an office. I can tell within 30s whether it's a successful, thriving unit or not.
00:50:13:17 - 00:50:14:02
Tom
Yeah, right.
00:50:14:03 - 00:50:38:22
James
Exactly the sort of energy it gives off. Yeah. So it's the same with workshops. I think so. And and so so the symbols and keeping the team together is really important. So you you obviously hire people who you train. Yeah. What do you look for in the people you hire? Because you've successfully built a very loyal team, which is a key ingredient of business success.
00:50:38:23 - 00:50:39:17
Tom
Yeah, we have a lot.
00:50:39:17 - 00:50:40:16
James
Of how do you do this?
00:50:40:17 - 00:50:44:01
Tom
Old timers and long, long, long stairs. Yeah.
00:50:44:02 - 00:50:49:03
James
We but they, they and they then bring on the other people or teach them their skills ideally.
00:50:49:04 - 00:50:54:05
Tom
Yeah. So I think we've got 11 people.
00:50:54:07 - 00:51:00:13
Tom
Two have been with me for 20 years or more or and then about five have been more than ten years and then.
00:51:00:18 - 00:51:03:19
James
Yeah. So that's like your core team more than for.
00:51:03:22 - 00:51:14:11
Tom
More than five years. So, so there's a real core in the workshop which is really important. And for hiring people I don't really know. I mean, I find recruitment one of the most difficult.
00:51:14:13 - 00:51:20:07
James
Oh we can help with that. So do you have a sense of what qualities you might look for?
00:51:20:09 - 00:51:26:02
Tom
Well, I want, you know, sort of can do friendliness.
00:51:26:04 - 00:51:43:01
Tom
Creative thinkers. But I find what's interesting in a way about recruitment is sometimes you don't spot people who turn out to be amazing. No, at the time, and you don't spot people who turn out to be terrible at the time. In the interview.
00:51:43:02 - 00:51:44:00
James
You know.
00:51:44:02 - 00:51:52:00
Tom
Someone who's amazing because I never when we interviewed them, I didn't realize they just, you know, they have these qualities which you can't quite define or see. But anyways, I.
00:51:52:00 - 00:51:58:23
James
Think that's one of my great anxieties, is turning away someone who turns out to be brilliant somewhere else. They are being, you never know, actually.
00:51:58:24 - 00:52:04:20
Tom
Never know, and they are being interviewed, which is probably a skill in itself. Yeah, I mean, it is a skill in itself, I imagine.
00:52:04:20 - 00:52:17:12
James
But that core team you describe, it reminds me someone saying, you know, if you want to win the World Cup in football, you need to have five world class players at least. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're exactly. Yeah. If you've got five. Yeah. You're you're flying sort.
00:52:17:12 - 00:52:22:04
Tom
Of thing. Yeah I think we do. We have really, really good core. And
00:52:22:06 - 00:52:24:18
James
So you've developed that and cherished that over time.
00:52:24:19 - 00:52:40:05
Tom
And in Swindon, you know, they all kind of they're very kind of supportive. They're very nice team. They're, you know, they are supportive of each other. And they organize a quiz night for themselves every now and then. And they they're just always I don't know. That seems to be.
00:52:40:06 - 00:53:00:15
James
So is there any advice, Tom? I mean, you were you were an accidental entrepreneur as described. You sort of picked it up and you had a side hustle or a hobby that you liked. Is there any advice you'd give young entrepreneurs or your younger self? I mean, generally we're trying to encourage entrepreneurship in the UK. Yeah, right. More fabricators would be great.
00:53:00:17 - 00:53:06:03
James
Is there anything you would say? So young people listening to think about or try?
00:53:06:05 - 00:53:23:23
Tom
Well I think I think it is quite it is very different now and I think it's and people do often ask me for advice like, you know, how I'm a maker, I've been to college and I've done this, and how do I start a business? And I think, you know, when I began, it was much more straightforward. What to do is like, get a database.
00:53:23:24 - 00:53:40:18
Tom
I mean, like, I could ring up all all of the interior designers would just listed in the yellow Pages and just get all the names and dresses. You know, that things were very straightforward. So now you have to do like colab, social media, this and that. And it's workshops are expensive. But so I think it is difficult to know what it's like.
00:53:40:18 - 00:53:42:22
James
Now or just to make people aware of you. You mean.
00:53:42:23 - 00:53:49:02
Tom
Just to make people aware of it? It's a big competitive space. Lots of people who are having a go at making something and putting it, making them.
00:53:49:02 - 00:53:54:09
James
But you could ask ChatGPT to give you a list of all the interior designers, couldn't you? I.
00:53:54:11 - 00:53:55:05
Tom
Okay.
00:53:55:07 - 00:53:57:00
James
My work.
00:53:57:02 - 00:53:58:01
Tom
With their phone numbers.
00:53:58:02 - 00:54:04:10
James
Yeah. I mean, I think I think it would do that. I don't know whether the numbers are up to date, but it would go looking for some.
00:54:04:12 - 00:54:06:21
Tom
Of its GDPR credentials. But anyway.
00:54:06:22 - 00:54:11:08
James
Yeah, well that would be maybe someone's problem somewhere. But yeah, the GDPR is tight.
00:54:11:09 - 00:54:17:12
Tom
But it was a bit more straightforward in that you could you did a fair or show, you did the craft in the bath craft show and you did the show.
00:54:17:12 - 00:54:19:06
James
In the these shows still exist?
00:54:19:11 - 00:54:31:23
Tom
Some probably, but the ones in London, there's some trade fairs don't really exist like they used to be. Not obvious where to exhibit. And then it was you could make the step like the investment to exhibit it where I did the ID or something.
00:54:31:24 - 00:54:33:03
James
And you start with a show.
00:54:33:04 - 00:55:03:06
Tom
And you see what happens. But I think, I mean, what I say to people, it's one thing, obviously, is go through doors if they open and and see what happens, you know, and I think I have done that a lot and a lot of the things I did, like just get buying the workshop. I've got a shop in Exmouth Market in Clerkenwell, and that was because a friend of mine had bought a flat above it, and it had an old butcher's shop underneath, and I had breakfast with him one morning and he said, why don't you do you want to rent my butcher's shop?
00:55:03:06 - 00:55:14:07
Tom
And it was in East London. I lived in Hammersmith and the workshop was in Swindon, so it was the least convenient place. Yeah, but it was kind of quite a good thing to do in the end, as it turned out. And,
00:55:14:09 - 00:55:16:11
James
So when these opportunities present themselves.
00:55:16:11 - 00:55:16:14
Tom
Yeah.
00:55:16:15 - 00:55:19:12
James
Maybe they only mean I walked through the doors because.
00:55:19:14 - 00:55:44:18
Tom
Then luck is a lot plays a big part in what we all do. And you don't know what might lead to something, but I think, Yeah, if door's open, go through them. And, specifically also in my world, I think, you know, if you're making furniture or something, take good photographs of it because particularly now. Right, because it's all in the image, you know, everyone, it's all that people.
00:55:44:18 - 00:55:47:19
James
Are looking. And if you've sold it, you need a good record of it.
00:55:47:21 - 00:55:56:12
Tom
Yeah, but you're selling from imagery the whole time, so that's good. So I think, you know, it's expensive taking good photograph, but you need to try to do that.
00:55:56:14 - 00:55:58:05
James
So does that mean getting a professional.
00:55:58:06 - 00:56:02:20
Tom
Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I would.
00:56:03:01 - 00:56:05:19
James
Be forming a relationship with a good photographer of them.
00:56:05:24 - 00:56:08:11
Tom
And there are lots of young photographers who might be.
00:56:08:16 - 00:56:13:24
James
So there might be good collaborations that people could start with early on. That would be great to do. And.
00:56:14:05 - 00:56:32:01
Tom
And also I think be nice to collect your database is really important. And I go to a lot of shows where people it's the young designer show, whatever, and you're going on asking them hundred questions about what they're doing, and then they don't ask you who you are. You know, they don't get your details and you got to collect people interested in what you're doing.
00:56:32:02 - 00:56:33:04
Tom
You've got to.
00:56:33:06 - 00:56:34:09
James
Find out who they are. Yeah.
00:56:34:10 - 00:56:39:20
Tom
Yeah, I think that's really important. And,
00:56:39:22 - 00:56:43:14
James
And in your experience, people are happy to give you their details if you ask them. Yeah. Oh they are.
00:56:43:15 - 00:56:43:20
Tom
Yeah.
00:56:43:21 - 00:56:44:01
James
Yeah.
00:56:44:02 - 00:56:46:00
Tom
Yeah. You know, they that's.
00:56:46:01 - 00:56:46:23
James
Yeah. That's an obvious.
00:56:47:02 - 00:56:59:15
Tom
Always fine and then be friendly to your I mean be be nice to your customers and your suppliers. You know because the other thing people your relationships with your suppliers are as important as the ones with your customers.
00:56:59:21 - 00:57:05:13
James
And a lot of business people overlook that. Yeah, they really are. So they're to their cost. Yeah.
00:57:05:15 - 00:57:18:14
Tom
And you can get a lot out of a supplier. Loads of advice, ideas. Yeah. And they can give you, you know, they recommend other people and they can be really supportive. So I think that's good. So but yeah friendly.
00:57:18:16 - 00:57:32:15
James
No that's very helpful advice. So is lastly is there is there something you're really excited about. Your 30th celebrations.
00:57:32:17 - 00:57:47:09
Tom
Well I don't. There are. What am I really excited about. Well I'm America I find exciting as a prospect and I think would be quite interesting to open a second showroom in America.
00:57:47:10 - 00:57:48:06
James
It's on point.
00:57:48:07 - 00:57:50:20
Tom
In another, on another coast.
00:57:50:21 - 00:57:51:10
James
Yes.
00:57:51:11 - 00:57:54:04
Tom
But, that won't be for a bit.
00:57:54:07 - 00:57:56:02
James
America has three coasts.
00:57:56:05 - 00:57:57:07
Tom
Yeah, exactly.
00:57:57:11 - 00:57:58:13
James
So haven't decided which.
00:57:58:17 - 00:58:00:24
Tom
I don't want to give anything away.
00:58:01:01 - 00:58:08:01
James
Can we go out of the world? No. Mary sounds exciting. And I mean, given you've been there three years, it sounds like you're doing a lot of business there.
00:58:08:03 - 00:58:28:12
Tom
And then I. I mean, yeah, personally, I'm getting older, and, I've kind of excited to know what with the next stage of the business is kind of exciting because then something needs to happen at some point in the next 3 or 5 years, probably.
00:58:28:13 - 00:58:31:14
James
And what have you in mind?
00:58:31:16 - 00:58:46:20
Tom
Well, I don't, I don't, I mean, I. It's interesting, I think, how you spend all this time building up a business and then you suddenly find a hang on. I've got to. It's got. I've got to somehow get out of it or it's got some got to happen to it because I won't.
00:58:46:22 - 00:58:49:01
James
Be around, won't be able to do it forever sort of thing.
00:58:49:01 - 00:58:49:19
Tom
To do it.
00:58:49:21 - 00:58:53:13
James
So well. This is an this is a thing that affects a lot of entrepreneurs.
00:58:53:14 - 00:58:56:03
Tom
And you sort of forget. Well, I never thought of it when I started.
00:58:56:03 - 00:58:57:10
James
I never thought, yeah.
00:58:57:12 - 00:59:23:10
Tom
Anyway, so now I'm just thinking that whatever happens, I want to really keep the Swindon, you know, the workshop, as it is. And I personally just want to be able to kind of step back a bit, remove myself from it somehow and do some more sculpture, or do you know, explore my own kind of creative endeavors a bit more?
00:59:23:11 - 00:59:26:04
James
So in a sense, you'd have to bring on a successor to.
00:59:26:04 - 00:59:27:07
Tom
Keep the succession and.
00:59:27:07 - 00:59:28:15
James
All that business.
00:59:28:16 - 00:59:35:09
Tom
But I would hate to sell it to, you know, private equity or something, which would then move all the manufacturing to.
00:59:35:10 - 00:59:38:13
James
Somewhere else. Yes. Well, that would be that would be a great shame.
00:59:38:13 - 00:59:44:07
Tom
Yeah. So the only legacy, I mean, I think the workshop is, is kind of is the work that I've done.
00:59:44:08 - 00:59:45:19
James
Yes.
00:59:45:21 - 00:59:58:14
Tom
Which will hopefully kind of exist for a long time. And, you know, there's the intellectual property around the designs. But then the actual workshop I think is a is a legacy, which I'd like to sort of leave.
00:59:58:15 - 01:00:12:19
James
So that would hopefully continue. Yeah. Well that's that's a big question to be thinking about. I mean, and that affects so many people in business. The idea of succession legacy. Yeah. And it's important question.
01:00:12:24 - 01:00:14:16
Tom
And something to do. Well if you can.
01:00:14:17 - 01:00:14:21
James
Yeah.
01:00:14:23 - 01:00:28:08
Tom
Because people can do it I mean it's a difficult I think it's difficult to do. And if you're very you know, some entrepreneurs are very, very involved and that can never, never step back and never and, you know, get in the way of the succession and whatever.
01:00:28:09 - 01:00:45:07
James
Yeah, it's the ultimate strategy in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It goes on after you. Yeah. So. Well I wish you every success with that. Thanks so much for coming in to talk to me. I found that fascinating, really interesting. And I'm going to look up all the different types of furniture, starting with Capricorn.
01:00:45:08 - 01:00:45:12
Tom
Yeah.
01:00:45:13 - 01:01:01:14
James
Great. Yeah. On your website. Thanks, Tom. I always ask two questions right at the end of all of my guests. And the first question is because we at Reed Love Mondays is what is it that gets you up on a Monday morning?
01:01:01:16 - 01:01:20:17
Tom
Mondays? Well, Mondays is a day I normally actually spend Monday in the workshop. Right? It's one of my things, and somehow it seems to be where I am. And I think you're probably what I was just saying about the workshop. And I like being amongst the people. And that's what I love about the business in a way.
01:01:20:18 - 01:01:40:11
Tom
And I like. And the workshop is kind of I really do like being in there with everyone and being with the pieces, you know, the work. So I think that's that's kind of what I look forward to is kind of seeing everyone. And likewise, I do like going into the showroom in London and, you know, the people of the business.
01:01:40:12 - 01:01:44:09
Tom
The main thing for me in a way. So I think that's what I love.
01:01:44:12 - 01:01:57:20
James
That's what gets you out. Yeah. You get into work with the team and that sounds very positive. And then my last question and it's related to what we've just been talking about really, but is where do you see yourself in five years time.
01:01:57:22 - 01:02:21:24
Tom
Yeah. So that's tricky isn't it. This at this age not tricky, but five years time I'd be very interested to see where I'm in five years time myself. And I would I want to be kind of stepped back in inverted commas. I think that's the the plan. And I'd like to, you know, the as I said, I'd like the workshop to kind of continue to be where it is.
01:02:22:00 - 01:02:46:09
Tom
And, you know, it's a the kind of whole the thing I've created. I think the workshop just feel to me like the most important thing, you know, it's the most important part of the whole business. And I really want to sort of safeguard that somehow or make sure that that stays whatever else happens. And then hopefully I can slowly remove myself from the whole thing.
01:02:46:09 - 01:02:58:08
Tom
And I would like to I do have ambitions to kind of have a different kind of life at some point, which doesn't involve going to Swindon the whole time. And I spend a lot of time on the M4 and on the train.
01:02:58:09 - 01:02:59:12
James
Right.
01:02:59:14 - 01:03:17:20
Tom
But I would like to kind of have a go at doing something else, really. And also the other thing I'm also quite interested in is, you know, apart from my own kind of creative stuff, is maybe doing something with younger people, like some not mentoring, but kind of showing, helping people to know that they can make stuff.
01:03:17:21 - 01:03:18:22
Tom
You know.
01:03:18:24 - 01:03:20:07
James
I think that'd be great.
01:03:20:10 - 01:03:39:07
Tom
And there could be a way of doing that, like using the workshop or something, you know, because I sometimes think, you know, we have this whole workshop which is closed at the weekends and, you know, you could have like a Saturday club in there where people could come to learn something, or I'd love to work with somebody who would like to or find somebody who would like to kind of.
01:03:39:09 - 01:03:58:18
James
Well, that's a great invitation. There is anyone's this thing that has. That would be fun. Youth enterprise. Well, I wish you every success with that. And I hope that sculpture one day is a is a central and special feature in Swindon. Yeah. Thanks for coming to talk to me.
01:03:58:19 - 01:03:59:00
Tom
Thank you.
01:03:59:01 - 01:04:00:11
James
James, it's been a real pleasure.
01:04:00:12 - 01:04:00:24
Tom
It's been great.
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