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In this episode of all about business, James speaks with Jenifer Rosenberg OBE, entrepreneur in fashion and social impact leader, about building purpose-driven organisations that create lasting change.
Jenifer shares her journey from spotting a gap in support for families facing serious illness, to co-founding Little Hearts Matter and growing it from a kitchen-table startup into a nationally recognised charity. She reflects on navigating funding challenges, building credibility with clinicians and policymakers, and leading through the emotional realities of mission-led work.
The conversation explores scaling a purpose-driven organisation sustainably, balancing commercial discipline with social impact, and the importance of governance, partnerships, and long-term strategy. Jenifer also shares lessons from stepping back from founder leadership, earning an OBE, and staying resilient while driving systemic change.
A thoughtful conversation about entrepreneurship with purpose, leading with conviction, and building something that truly lasts.
02:18 from post room to senior role
08:07 quality and innovation with Marks & Spencer
16:28 branching out into fashion
26:40 the power of innovation
30:23 a personal journey with heart failure
35:24 founding the Heart Cells Foundation
48:37 maintaining energy and health
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
Follow Jenifer Rosenberg OBE on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenifer-rosenberg-aa961a156/
Find out more the Heart Cells Foundation here: https://www.heartcellsfoundation.com/
[00:01:19] Well, today on all about business, I couldn't be more delighted than to welcome Jennifer Rosenberg, who has had three amazing careers. I wanna say that again. Three amazing careers. And we're gonna talk a little about each of them. Um, Jennifer, you started out at Marks and Spencer's. And were, was promoted on numerous occasions to a very senior role there. [00:01:39] Um, earlier in your career, then you started your own business, j and j Fashions. Mm-hmm. That's right. Which became the largest privately owned ladies wear manufacturer in the country, employing thousands of people. And then you started the Heart Sales Foundation, which is pioneering really exciting new research, um, to help people with heart disease and heart conditions, and I want [00:02:00] to talk to you about that as well. [00:02:01] But firstly, welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me, James. It's a real pleasure to see you. Thank you for coming in. Let's go back to the beginning and those swinging sixties, 'cause I believe that you were the person with your team who introduced the miniskirt to Marks and Spencers. No less. [00:02:17] That's. What happened? That's right. What happened? Well, first of all, I started in m and s in the post room. So I really started at the bottom pushing a post trolley around, um, delivering the mail. But I didn't intend to stay there. And, you know, after various meetings with, um, staff management and everything, I found myself in the skirt department. [00:02:35] I was very happy to be in the Scotland, but at that time, I wasn't the senior buyer of the skirt skirt department. I was very junior. But I could see what was happening in London. This was the beginning of the sixties. It was every day there was something new that was happening in the scene. And Mary Quant. [00:02:52] Developed something called the Miniskirt. And prior to that we'd been wearing skirts down to our calves, our ankles, and suddenly [00:03:00] this amazing designer called Mary Quant and this wonderful model called Twiggy was walking around London in these miniskirts and I felt, well, we've gotta have this. We've absolute. [00:03:11] So I bought one for myself and fortunately I've got good legs. So that was okay. That went down very well, and I made a presentation to the board. And I said to them, we have to try this. Look, this is what's happening on the high street. And they ummed and they aren't. And I put it up against myself and because I'm quite short, it didn't look, 'cause I'm short. [00:03:30] So sorry to interrupt you at this point, just to help me visualize this. Was the board all male? Yeah. So it was, you were presented all men. There were no women on, no women at all. And they were probably all of a certain age say. Definitely. Definitely. And had a reputation for being quite staid. Mark and Spencer. [00:03:45] Yes. But they stayed. But they were involved. They were involved. They were very much into merchandise. They, they really would feel the fabric, look at the fabric, and they also had an amazing way of communication communicating with [00:04:00] us. They were brilliant. So they'd walk in and they'd say, what's new? So I immediately got hold of my sample of this mini skirt and I said, sir, I feel we should be trying this. [00:04:08] This is what's happening on the high street. Then I put it up against myself and it didn't look that short. Why is that? Yeah, because I'm short. Because you are short are so look, I'm quite long on you. No, it look quite reasonable on me. So, so in fact it was Teddy Sea at the time he was the chairman. Well, he is a famous retailer. [00:04:25] Absolutely. Yeah. And he said, well, and they used to call you by your. Maiden name. So my name was Levine. So he said, well, Ms. Levine, okay, well if you think we should try it, let's try it. So we'll try. We worked in dozens in those days, so we'll try 50 dozen, which was nothing for them when they were buying. [00:04:42] And of course we. We made them, put them out and they just walked off the counter within a day. I mean, it was just a 50,000. I like that. Well, we always worked in dozens there, which is like 600. 600 for everyone else. Listening. 600. Absolutely. Absolutely. Pre, pre decimalization. Um, even after Decimalization, we [00:05:00] worked in Dawson's, always in, I wonder why that was. [00:05:02] I don't know. Just tradition. Just tradition. Absolute. But it was a very, it was a very traditional firm, but they had vision. And that was so important. And they realized that what was happening in the High Street in the sixties was changing ladies fashion. In fact, it was changing everything. It was changing the musing business. [00:05:21] It was changing hair. You had Vidal Sasoon who created that amazing cut that, um, Mary Quant had, and Twiggy had. I mean, the whole scene was changing. Even Reemployment began in, well, the house 1960. Here we go. You're 7th of May, 1960. It's a brilliant time. Your father had great vision and knew this was the time to start. [00:05:41] He did. Well, it was a time for new ideas, wasn't it? Exactly. Everybody was thirsty and hungry for new ideas, and he was definitely an ideas guy. Mm. So so you, you found yourself in this, um, amazing business where they were open-minded to new ideas, so Openminded and you were able to present what you saw. I mean, I always remember when I bought for [00:06:00] myself, um, there was a wonderful. [00:06:03] Boutiques of stores called CO and they bought beautiful merchandise from Paris and I bought from there a velvet blazer. A brown velvet blaze. And I remember it like it was yesterday. And again, I brought it in and I showed it to my director at the time, which again was Teddy sea. And I said, sir, I feel this is something we should try. [00:06:24] And he looked at it and he said. Miss Levi Velvet's only for the evening. I said, no, it's moving forward now and people are going to be wearing velvet blazers during the day. Well then try it, but this time, because it was such an expensive garment, we could only try, try 25 dozen. Mm-hmm. We got them in again. [00:06:43] M ands made velvet blazers for the next 10 years. They never stopped. It became a fashion item that every woman wanted to have. What colors were they? Black and brown. Just those two colors. That's interest. It's like, it's like Henry Ford with his car. You, you have any color? As long as it's black. But I'm picking [00:07:00] up the. [00:07:00] You called him, sir? Yes. Tell. And he called you Ms. Levine. Mm-hmm. I mean, so the business environment's changed so much, hasn't it? Totally, totally. I mean, totally. I mean, this is interesting perspective you're showing, but I find it strange when I maybe call somebody up and they immediately call me by my first name, because that isn't how we grew up. [00:07:18] No. But that's the way the world is today. It's very different. But Marks and Spencer's then was, I mean, it's still a very successful and very good business, but then it was sort of undisputed leader, wasn't undisputed leader of the High Street. What qualities made it that, do you think? Because we had to, quality was terribly important. [00:07:36] Quality. Quality, all the, all the factories that manufacture for m and s had to be of a certain standard. They couldn't be like, um, sweatshops. They just couldn't. They had to be, had proper facilities of the m and s insisted on having the right facilities for their staff. They had canteens in all their shops so girls could have breakfast or lunch, and they [00:08:00] insisted that the manufacturers had the same facilities. [00:08:02] They had to be clean, they had to have canteens for the girls to have lunch. And if you smoked in those days, people smoked you, um, had a smoking room. All right, so they were ahead of their time in that respect, way ahead of their time. Was most of the manufacturing done in Britain then as well? At that time, everything was done in Britain on their late, so all the sourcing was made in Britain. [00:08:24] Maybe not the fabric, but every, I would say a hundred percent of actual manufacturing was done in the uk. So that's totally changed. Totally changed now. Totally changed. Yeah. Um, it's a totally different world. I mean, you buy something, you buy, I dunno, a skirt or a bra and it's made in Bangladesh or it's made in Paula Lumpa, wherever. [00:08:45] Right. And you dunno what the conditions are in those factories at all. Well, they're, they're sweat shops. You remember that? Terrible? I think it was, it was either Bangladesh or Pakistan where they had that terrible, oh, there was a fire. Fire, yes, I do. And a lot of people were killed. And I [00:09:00] mean, those factory conditions were appalling. [00:09:02] So it's interesting. So why do you think that those standards that were so successful then were allowed to fall away and, well, they haven't fallen away in the uk it's because people have gone overseas. But wait, well that's what's happened, isn't it? But I mean, people in the UK are happy to buy things from these places. [00:09:18] Well, I tell you a funny little story, right before going into the skirt department, I was in the accessory department and um, I was very junior then, and. Um, we were buying Chanel crocheted berries from Italy, and I went to the, I went to Florence. 'cause all the little, the factories were sort there was, and then, alright, let me start again. [00:09:42] These Chanel berries were all handmade. By artisans living all around Florence, but they would come to a central point where they would be collected. So I went to this central point, which was a factory to check these berries out, and each worker had been given a shape, which [00:10:00] they had to make these hand crochet berries to. [00:10:03] Anyway, being a lady, I suddenly decided I need to go to the lavatory. So I said, oh, you know, where can I go? And there was a lot of hissing and oh. Talking behind hands and everything and suddenly the next thing I found myself in a car being taken to somebody's home to use the facilities because all they had in the factory was a hole in the floor. [00:10:24] Right. So I thought this was terribly funny, right? So when I went back and I told my boss, you know this story about what had happened, he was horrified and the manufacturer's agent was called in and said, unless they put proper facilities in that factory, they're canceling all the contracts. Right? And that's how they operated because they felt that you shouldn't have, you should have proper facilities everywhere. [00:10:48] Yeah, and they were, their high standards really created the amazing business that they had and the quality of the merchandise that they made. Yeah, so it's a real message around focusing [00:11:00] on quality. Quality was second to line and treating people properly and treating peo, and I always read another instance again. [00:11:07] Um, again, with, um, teddy Sea, there's something with tweeds. Again, tweeds were manufactured in various countries and we used to buy a lot of them, but there's a fabric called bulls wall, which is where the offcuts of the fabric was made, and it, and it was, it was cheaper. It was, it felt very coarse. He would always feel a, feel a skirt and say. [00:11:31] This can't be bull's wall 'cause we're not buying it. Hmm. So, and they had their own quality control in the building. They had their own team of quality control people. They had their own laboratories. They were way, way ahead. So Teddy Sief, I mean, you've mentioned several times I know because he was my boss. [00:11:48] He was your boss. But I, he, he, he. For younger listeners was very famous, very retailer, entrepreneur, businessman in the 20th century, which is already quite distant. Um, [00:12:00] what, what did you, what did you learn from your boss? So what would you, what would you carry forward from him that you'd say people listening would do well to? [00:12:07] I think he, hang on, we've just got a helicopter going. Buzz. I'll ask it when it's gone. Um. [00:12:19] So, so what did you learn from your boss? What would be carried forward into this area that would be good boss? First of all, I think he was a wonderful communicator. You know, he was the chairman of this public company, and I was a kid in my twenties. He knew exactly who I was. He would come in, he would come have a conversation with me, he would communicate with me, and. [00:12:41] I think that was an amazing, amazing way to operate. And they all, the senior board operated like that. They would go down to Marble Arch, talk to the customers, see what was happening, what was selling, come back and they knew that business inside out. So they were very keen to talk to people who [00:13:00] were in the absolutely absolute on the shop floor, customer facing and learn from them. [00:13:04] And they would make a point of talking to the sales assistants because the sales assistant would know more than anybody else. What the customer wants. Yes. I mean, and, and they, they regarded everybody as being important, you know, from the, from the shop assistant to the buyer, to the senior buyer. They treated us all equally. [00:13:27] Very good. That's a very important message. You started out, you said in the post room, so I suppose that was a good way to get to know everyone 'cause you were delivering the mail. No, I, no, I got to know everybody. I didn't stay in the post room very long. I was only there two weeks, but after that two weeks, okay. [00:13:40] I went into the accounts department. That's where I got to know everybody because in those days you had things like checks, right. And the checks had to have two signatures. So every check had to have the company secretary signature on him, Mr. Goldberg. I remember him like it was yesterday, and then I was given the job. [00:13:59] Because I was [00:14:00] young and cute, I was given the job of them finding directors to get the second signature on. Right. Well, I didn't find them. They'd phone around and there were various members of the board, like the Sackers and um, the Sackers, um, the Sackers and the what, the las, and they were mature gentlemen and they were very happy when I came in to have a conversation. [00:14:22] They didn't have much to do other than sign these, check, check, check. Have a cup of coffee and they were so, I got to know them all. So I would say that I learned more. I learned about more people in the accounts department than I did in the post room. Okay. But so this point about making time to talk to people. [00:14:38] It feels like in many businesses that's being lost. I think it is being lost because you've got all this technology today. People are texting, they're sending emails, they're losing the art of communication. I'm, I have a little saying, I always say to myself, it pays to talk and I'm think it's so important to pick up the phone and have a [00:15:00] conversation with somebody rather than keep sending texts and emails. [00:15:03] It pays to talk. It pays to talk. My version of that is talk before you type. Oh, okay. Because I agree there we're, we're on the same wavelength, James we're, I think you're more likely to get things done if you talk to someone. Absolutely. I agree with you. I couldn't agree with you more because an email is very black and white and it can be dangerous. [00:15:21] Yeah. Whereas when you have a conversation, you can just, if there's, you can feel there's a situation developing, you can diffuse it. Yes. So how many years were you at Marks and Spencer's? I was at Marks and Spencer for 14 years. Four. And then you branched out on your own, which is exciting. Then I branched out on your own. [00:15:38] So this is career number two. This is, so I left career number one where I was flying high. I was really, so what was your last job there before you? My last job, well, my last job was complet. Hang second. Sorry. That's noise. Yeah. [00:15:56] So we'll come back in with my last job. My last job was in ladies [00:16:00] separates and separates. Had grown it. I started off with a small skirt range, but from there we developed a trouser range. They didn't have trousers. Then we developed jackets and the whole thing grew. It was like it was growing at such a fast rate. [00:16:14] We didn't quite realize how far, how big it was. It was enormous. It was, and it was quite funny with trousers because we've developed these fit and flare trousers and we couldn't get enough production. So again, when the board would go round to different manufacturers, anyone that had Hoffman Press suddenly became a trouser manufacturer overnight. [00:16:32] We were pulling in production from everywhere. Was a Hoffman Press. Oh, a Hoffman Press, right. Um, it's a big, it's two pads. Yeah, and you just clamp it down and it steams and presses, so you put a trouser leg under it and you get the cre. Oh, I see. But you use it for other things as well. You don't only use it for trousers, you can use it for, but it's that it is all been modernized. [00:16:54] Now. I shouldn't think any industry uses a Hoffman press today as well. I wanted, if I make sure I knew what it was, [00:17:00] so, so in 1974 you left? Mm-hmm. And you started your own business? I started my own manufacturing business called j and j Fashions Supply. Who else? But Marks and Spencer. So you had left on good terms. [00:17:13] Obviously I left on very good terms and in fact they gave me a golden handshake, which was very nice. In fact, I actually left on the Christmas of 73. Um, we opened our doors to our factory January 74, which are far too young to remember, but that was the days of Edward Heath and Harold Wilson, and we had a three day week. [00:17:35] No, I do remember that. I do. Yeah. Actually, yeah, I do remember. Yeah, that wasn't a great time probably to start a business. It was a terrible time to start a business. You could only work for three days a week. So how did you deal with that? I mean, what happened? Well, what happened was my husband was also a very large manufacturer to m and s, and he had a factory nearby that had a generator. [00:17:57] So he would use the generator for the two [00:18:00] days. That, that he wasn't working. Then I would borrow the generator for the two days that we weren't working. Oh, so it was on a truck, wasn't it? On a truck, absolutely. So what did you make of, what were your first, my first contract was Ladies trousers. Ladies trousers? [00:18:13] Yes. So describe them. What did they look like? Well, if I say fit and flare with that meaning flared trousers. Flared tr 1974. Yeah. I'm thinking Flared trousers. Yeah, flared trousers. What material? Crippling. Crippling. Crippling, crepe. And the best. And people. People loved these, I imagine. They loved these trousers. [00:18:27] And the fastest colors were Navy and black. Right. So this was sort of something people would wear? Absolutely. Well, daily trousers were coming into people's wardrobes. They were new, they had to 'cause women didn't wear trousers, didn't, well, women didn't wear trousers. So you've revolutionized fashion. Well, I fashion. [00:18:44] I always remember when we were at m and s, going back to m and s, and again, Teddy came in and he said, and trousers were selling incredibly well. I said, well, why are you girls not wearing trousers? 'cause we weren't. I said, well, we're not allowed to, sir. He said, well, from today and you are allowed to wear [00:19:00] them. [00:19:00] I want to see you all in trousers. That's good. So, so that's when, that would've been, I suppose, about 19 70, 71, we were allowed to wear trousers. So that gave you a, an idea this was something that might be happening everywhere. And then you, you, you grew that business and you ended up with several factories. [00:19:17] We finished up in the end with 12 factories. We started our first factory in the Northeast in Wal End, and we grew, we finished up Newcastle. Newcastle, that's right. Finished up with about eight factories there. We were in Sunderland, Blythe. Along the whole coast. So Newcastle was your base? Mm-hmm. [00:19:34] Newcastle was our base. Right. And then we then branched into Yorkshire. So what, what made you success? I mean, 'cause you became, I think Business Woman of the Year, VECO, that Smart Champagne brand Absolutely. Gave you the accolade. And I still get my champagne every year on my birthday. Oh, they still send it to you? [00:19:51] Yes. All, all credit to them for that. So you, you were obviously very successful in this period. Well, it was a very exciting time [00:20:00] again, because seventies was a very prosperous time in the uk and you know, I had a wonderful relationship with Marks and Spencer and I was able to develop that relationship from being a buyer there, knowing what the marketplace wanted to becoming a manufacturer. [00:20:15] So what you've just described is an interesting opportunity, I think for many people, is to become a supplier to your current company. You know, if you're working somewhere. Well, it doesn't What, what? What might be helpful to your current employer that you might be able to supply to them? Because when my father started this business in 1960, he recruited for Gillette, for instance, which is where he used to work. [00:20:36] Oh, right. Well there you are. Very similar. And he also left on very good terms. So it's a very similar scenario, isn't it? If you can leave on good terms and become a supplier to a company you work for, that's maybe a good way to get going because they also value it because they know that you know what they want and how they operate and therefore, you know their standard. [00:20:55] I'll tell you a funny story with my first factory, so I marked [00:21:00] going there and it's all got, it's a warehouse. On an industrial site at wools end, so it's gotta be painted. So I did a color board, I got my color sorted out and I with the builder, and I decided the walls are gonna be this color. And anyway, when I go up there, they're not the same color. [00:21:16] They were a bright white and I wanted a like a cream. Mm. So he said to me, but it, so I said, well, it's wrong. He said, well, it doesn't matter. It's only a factory. I said, it may only be a factory to you, but it's my factory and I want the colors the way I chose them. So, can you please change this color? I don't think anyone had ever spoken to him like that before. [00:21:38] But the colors were changed. I certainly that. Yes. Absolutely. Because Bright, if you are looking at bright white walls, it's very bad on your eyes. You want your headache to be softer. Yeah, much softer. 'cause you've got the bright lights on all the time. Yeah. So, yes. So how many people worked in that factory? [00:21:53] When in beginning or the, oh, in walls then, and I suppose when we started off with one line, right? Because you, when you are in production, [00:22:00] you have lines of machines. Yeah. So we started off with one and gradually we built it up. And I suppose we probably finished up with about a hundred in that factor. [00:22:07] Okay, so what, what made you open separate factories rather than just get a bigger factory? Well. First of all, it was the space. I mean, factories take up a lot of room. 'cause you've got to have a machine and then you've got to have your pressing units at the bottom and your packing. It's a lot of footage required to manufacture garments. [00:22:26] It's not like you're manufacturing cans of soup. You need a lot more room. A lot of room. So you need a lot of room for one range. Yeah. A lot of space. A lot of space. And it was better. I mean, if you get too big, it's much more difficult to control than if you've got a system where, say you've got. Eight or 10 lines in a factory. [00:22:44] You have a supervisor on each line. You have the merchandise being made in sections through the line, and then it comes to the bottom. It gets pressed, it gets packed. We just found that was a better way and most of the factories were that similar sizes. Actually, if I [00:23:00] think about it, around a hundred people. [00:23:00] Yeah, about a hundred people. Some were more, we had some more. Yeah. Yeah. So what other, what other items did you make? Well, we finished up making everything in ladies wear. We made dresses, skirts, obviously had to make skirts, trousers, leisure wear, um, blouses. So all ladies wear, all ladies outwear. No knitwear. [00:23:22] We never touched knitwear. Right. Um, we never touched men's wear, but we covered all, and we didn't touch coats. We, we didn't cut coats, but we did everything else. So you, you built this business up over a almost 20 year period mm-hmm. And then sold it, I believe, very successfully in 1992. That's right. WW why did you, to sell it or what was your sort of, what was your strategy around that? [00:23:45] Well, our strategy was that, um, we'd grown our business. Um, we'd done, my husband had done a couple of takeovers as well because it was very difficult to grow organically. So we took over two other companies and we were, you know, at [00:24:00] the end of the day, we were made an offer we couldn't refuse. We had a very successful ladies wear clothing business. [00:24:06] We were very design orientated. We were making merchandise that was selling incredibly well. So we had something, we were innovators. Therefore, we had something that was very attractive to our competitors. Right. So who, who bought the business? A company called Claremont who were a public company, but they, you know, to have a design is a very expensive part of a business. [00:24:31] 'cause you have to employ designers and you have to travel and it's not, it's not in it. You have to invest a lot of money to have good design, which we did. And they were more into, um. They were much more into massive big production. They wanted to cut costs, so they cut the design element down. So they cut the innovation outta the business. [00:24:53] And when things get difficult, if you haven't got new merchandise coming through, you suffer. So after they bought your business, [00:25:00] they did that. After years after they bought our business, they went bust. Really? Yeah. So that must have been sad for you? I mean, it was sad, but you know, my husband said to me, love me. [00:25:09] Don't love your business. So, I mean, we, I walked away. Did you both? That's easy to say. Hard to do probably. What was it? Well, you know, when I, when we, you know, I'd, I've been in the business, we had the business now 20 years. Um, I was very happy to walk away. Yeah. I mean, I'd done an awful lot in that time, you know, since I left school and worked for Marks and Spencer. [00:25:34] Then I'd ran a business and I was quite happy. You know, this offer came along. It was a very good offer, so I was happy to walk away. Yeah. Yes, of course. I was sad when they messed the business up, but equally it was, you know, they, I knew they were gonna mess it up because if you don't invest in design, you are in trouble. [00:25:55] What, what you just said about innovation is so important to any business. Any business, if you're not innovating, [00:26:00] you're becoming irrelevant. I think, um, I mean, I always remember when we bought this leisure work factory and suddenly, you know, because I re I, I remember the start of leisure wear of leggings and it all, you know, all happening and we took into m and s, um. [00:26:16] A pair of leopard skin leggings and they looked at them in shock and horror, whatever. Again, we, we did a trial. Now I'm on the other side. I'm the manufacturer doing the trial. Well, we started a trial originally of a hundred dozen five. We sold in that one season, 6,000 dozen pairs of these leggings. You can imagine how profitable that was for both of us. [00:26:39] Yes. Yes, so, so you were still innovating, right? Oh, very much. That's how the business grew. Of course, our business grew. From being one line in a factory in Newcastle to employing 3000 people because we innovated and I was very good at innovating, as was my husband. He was brilliant on [00:27:00] fabrics and textiles. [00:27:01] And between us, we were an amazing team. So when you say I was very good at innovating, what, what made you very good at innovative? What, how do you think about innovation? How do you go about it? I'm very, I, I just can, we used to go. Uh, we used to go to America about three or four times a year as a supplier to look at the shops. [00:27:21] 'cause the Americans were brilliant at taking high couture fashion and making it very commercial. And we'd pick up and buy merchandise and, and copy it. Just have a look. Yeah, have a look. Absolutely. And we'd pick, I mean, I'm, I have a very good eye for seeing what's going to sell. So being out there really looking at what's available, what's going on? [00:27:41] Absolutely, absolutely. So important. And America in that time, in the, um, seventies and eighties were the forerunners. Their stores were wonderful. They had amazing merchandise, so we copied. Yeah. Well we've had other guests on the podcast who've done very well in business saying exactly that. I mean, it's, it's the, I [00:28:00] mean, we've sued a few times, but anyway, you always settle, sued a few times. [00:28:04] That's, that was the part of the cost of doing business. No, absolutely, absolutely. No, it was, um, so as I say, you, we, you have to innovate and as you say today, you have to innovate. Yes. I mean, look at Steve, job at Apple. Yes. But didn't do so well when he wasn't there. When he returned, no. Then he came back. I mean, there, it's an amazing company. [00:28:24] Certainly is. So what do you think about these days? Very few companies manufacture clothing in Britain. What's changed? Why is that? Because it was cost, I mean, at the tail end. Um, before we sold out, we were manufacturing abroad as well, so we still had our big factory place in the uk, but we'd gone to Portugal where we were manufacturing, um, denim dresses. [00:28:50] We'd gone to Morocco and we'd gone to Hong Kong. Right. And you were doing that because it was becoming more and more expensive because it was more and more, and also if you wanted a, a garment that had a lot of work [00:29:00] content in it, we couldn't afford it in the, in, in our own factories because we couldn't pass that on to the retailer. [00:29:06] So that was because of labor costs primarily, was it? Yes. So paying more and more expensive to employ people. Mm-hmm. And the customers wouldn't entertain paying more for the product? Well, the, the client wouldn't like your, yeah. Your customer wouldn't entertain power. Your customer being the retailer, in this case, the retailer, and also other manufacturers are going abroad as well. [00:29:23] Therefore, we had to compete with them. So this was a trend that you had to go with? Absolutely. 'cause if you didn't, you'd go outta business. So that was sort of globalization occurring, I suppose. Exactly. And that was another reason. It was a perfect time to sell out. Right? Because I know that manufacturers spend their life chasing, going from one country to another to find the cheapest production. [00:29:43] So you sort of saw the writing on the wall. We saw the writing on the wall. I saw the writing on the. So then coming to your third career, my third career, third amazing career I wanna say, because it is amazing. You, you took a complete pivot and did something different. Well, I What happened and why [00:30:00] did you do that? [00:30:00] Well, there's always a reason that things happen. I mean, my husband, we, we were enjoying retirement. We were traveling, we were doing lots of wonderful things, and life was good. It was very good. And then. And then sadly, my husband developed a heart condition. So he developed something called heart failure, and we went to see his cardiologist who really gave him weeks to live. [00:30:25] It was as black and white as that. Sorry, just to interrupt you, but there, what is heart failure? Heart failure is when it can occur three different ways. It can occur if you have a heart attack. It can occur if you have something called cardio myelopathy, or it can occur, um, without for no reason. Right, and it's when the heart, the heart is a muscle. [00:30:51] So when a muscle beca, when you have heart failure, the heart becomes enlarged and it can either be a heart attack or one of the [00:31:00] other issues that has, can cause it, A virus can cause it. So therefore, when the heart becomes enlarged, it can't pump as well as it did before it was enlarged. Therefore, the body builds up fluid. [00:31:13] Right. And that's what heart failure is, where you get fluid building up in your lungs. You find people with heart failure have swollen legs. Uh, you, um, you become very breathless. You can't walk upstairs. It's very, very debilitating, right? And he's so developed this condition and my husband developed this condition. [00:31:33] And, um, the only treatment other than a heart transplant is medication. And that just, it helps, but it does, certainly doesn't cure. Right. So you were in this situation. We were in this situation. What did you do? Well, we went to see my husband's cardiologist and um, he said, you know, he gave us the bad news that things were very grim. [00:31:58] But he said he had [00:32:00] recently been to a presentation given at Bart's Hospital by a young cardiologist called Dr. Anthony Mather, who presented a paper on something that was called stem cell Therapy. And this treatment was happening in Germany in Frankfurt, where they were taking a patient's own stem cells and injecting them back into their heart. [00:32:22] So sorry to keep asking you. That's okay. To explain things. It's. What is a stem cell? Oh, right. I I'm not, I must explain to anybody listening. I'm not a medical person. No, no, but just a heads up. What is it? Whole body as opposed to any other cell. Yeah. The whole body is full of stem cells. Right. And you've got millions of stem cells in your body. [00:32:40] You've got them in your blood, you've got them in your bone, and you've got them in your muscle. So that's what stem cells are. They're, your body is full of them and this science that they would. Talking about in Germany where they were taking, extracting stem cells from the patient's [00:33:00] body and with heart failure, they'd worked out that the best place to take stem cells from was from the bone. [00:33:06] From the bone marrow. And they would then treat these stem cells in the laboratory, clean them and infuse them, and then inject them back into the patient's damaged heart. And they had scientific proof that by injecting them back into this. Damaged heart, it started to regenerate that damaged heart. That sounds amazing. [00:33:27] So they were literally injecting the heart with stem cells? Yes. Yes. And these were stem cells that had been harvested from another part? Yes. And they were their own, but they were their person's own stem cells. Right. And this was new science, brand new. Nobody like you. I didn't know what stem cells were either. [00:33:43] I mean, none of us knew. We'd never heard of them. Right. It was Sonia, we are talking now about 2003, so we're talking about 23 years ago. So this, this cardiologist, mm-hmm. Back in 2003 at St. Bart's Hospital here in London, shared this information, but then you, as I [00:34:00] understand, went to Germany. Well, he told us it was happening in Germany. [00:34:03] Right. And Ian, my husband, no, didn't, no. Wasn't in his vocabulary at all. He never understood what the word no was. So he said, well, we've got to go. So Anthony, so Angie said, okay. So he said, I wanna go tomorrow anyway, by next week we all went, Anthony Mayer came with us. We all were on a plane to Germany, to Frankfurt. [00:34:24] Right. But my husband had the treatment. Right. And how long did that take? The treatment itself? He was in hospital for two days. That's all right. And what was the result? The result was made when we came home. Prior to going to Germany, he hadn't been able to walk up the stairs. 'cause stairs are one of the big testing things when you have heart failure. [00:34:44] Right? Within about two weeks, he was walking up the stairs. It was a miracle. It was like a light switch going on. It was unbelievable. So then based on this amazing result, you decided to set up a charity. Well, it was Ian really. He was [00:35:00] so incensed that because we were with Anthony, when you travel with somebody, you spend a lot of time and you have conversations. [00:35:06] And it evolved that there was no money in the UK going for this research. Right. And Ian was a poor, he thought it was terrible that, you know, it was such an amazing thing that had happened to him. That there was no money for pioneering this treatment in the uk. So he said to Anthony, how much do you need to start, start this trial here in the uk? [00:35:30] So an I I, I think he was being quite flippant, active. He said, oh, I need about 6 million. So this is 2000 and threes. Four. Yeah. So Ian said, I'll get it for you. And he did. So he raised 6 million. Well, and set up a charity to do this. He set up the charity first and then we raised the money. Yeah. And the charity is called The Heart Sell Foundation. [00:35:49] It's called the Heart Cells Foundation. Yes. And that was founded by you and Ian. That's right. Initially raised 6 million for this research. Yeah. And where did, so that went to St. Bar that well, but the [00:36:00] treatment was happening at St. Bart's. Yes. Yes. But we, we have the most amazing relationship. With some Barolo Hospital because we are a charity funding this treatment. [00:36:11] We've been doing it, we've been working with them now for 21 years, and we don't put the money into a pool that gets just spread around it. We're only treat. We are only paying for what we are. They're treating, we pay for the technician that's dealing with it. It's a direct payment and it's working brilliantly. [00:36:29] So, how's the treatment evolved and developed since 2003? Well, they're obviously fine tuning it as it's gone on. I mean, we now have a situation where we are treating, we, we did our three gold standard trials, which were very successful and papers were published and it, so what's the gold standard trial? [00:36:45] Um, sent trial. Sounds like an important trial. It's an important trial. We, what's it? We did three, three trials. Uh, um, we did one trial. They're called Gold Standard because it's the technique and the way they have to do them. Yeah. But one [00:37:00] trial was treating patients who'd had a heart attack. So when they were rushed to a and e, they were given the opportunity of having stem cells. [00:37:07] The second one was patients who'd had a heart attack and developed an enlarged heart. And the third trial was where patients for no reason developed something called cardiomyopathy, which again is like, is heart failure, but there's no reason they haven't had a heart attack, they haven't had a stroke. [00:37:24] It's just suddenly happened. And that tends to be much younger people. Mm-hmm. So we'd done those three different trials. Mm-hmm. And the results, the results were excellent. Right. I dunno whether you've had a chance to look at any of our case studies, but when you go on our website and you look at our case studies, the results are unbelievable. [00:37:43] So people who are interested in this mm-hmm. How, how do they find you, Jennifer? Well, they find us if they go on our website, which is the heart cell foundation.com, and you look on there, you'll find all the information you need, you can register with us and we will [00:38:00] contact you and providing you tick all the boxes you. [00:38:04] Be able to receive this amazing treatment. So tick all the boxes. In fact, you're a sufferer of heart failure of some form or other. Yeah, but you've medically got to tick the boxes. 'cause you may have other conditions as well. So I'm not a medical person, but they have to go through our whole medical system. [00:38:19] They have to have scans to make sure that they're suitable. Right. And this is available to people. This is available free charge across the country. Free, free of, well, the Heart Cell Foundation fund it. Right. It costs about 12,000 pounds to treat a patient, but where we fund it, yes. Fantastic. Mm-hmm. And, and well thank you and congratulations for doing that. [00:38:39] That sounds fantastic. So you are now, as I understand it, seeking to expand this service. And raise more money. Well, what would more, what Ian's dream was that this, this treatment should be available across the UK in every national health hospital, not just where we are now, where it's now available at bart. [00:38:58] So to, to be able [00:39:00] to roll it out across the country. Um, in all the various national health hospitals, we now have to, I mean, we'd have to get that approved by Nice. We now have to do a larger trial. So to do the larger trial, we have to raise. Eight to 10 million pounds. 'cause we have to cr recruit about 600 patients to do this trial. [00:39:21] Right. And we won't just do it at Barts hospital. We'll be doing the trial at different regional hospitals around the country. Right. And when you do the trial, there's a control group, is that right? So some people are, aren't given a placebo. Oh yes. How does that work? And tell us what you're gonna do about that. [00:39:37] Well, that would be the same thing because when you do a trial. You half say you're doing a trial of 600 patients, 300 will have the placebo and the other 300 will have, as I call it, the real deal. So some of 'em think they're getting the treatment. No. Yeah, they don't know. They don't know. They don't know this. [00:39:54] This is the way, it's quite interesting. This is the way the medical. System in this country works. [00:40:00] It's been constructed. I think it's universal, actually. I don't think it's just in the uk I think it's everywhere. But when you do these medical trials, half the recipients have to have a placebo will receive the placebo. [00:40:11] So they don't know. Right. Um, and then it's only when the trials get unblinded and even even say Professor Anthony Mather that started the he, he wouldn't know right. Nobody knows. So how long does the trial take? Well, it depends. I think we probably took, um, we, we unblocked them probably after a year. [00:40:32] Right. So, so, so years worth of data. But then that patient will be being checked up all through that year. Right? They'll be coming back for checkups just to see what their heart infraction was and, yes. Oh, I wish you every success with that. Thank you. That's, that's an amazing story. Um. Is there anything you would say looking at the health system more widely would be welcome? [00:40:58] I mean, there are lots of things you can [00:41:00] think of, I imagine. Well, I think one has, I think the national health when it works is brilliant. And I think our relationship with Barts Hospital has been amazing. Where we're working with a national health hospital, we are a private charity. We have this incredible relationship and. [00:41:20] I do. Um, I would love if you ever had the time to come down to parts and see the heart unit there. I'd love to. It is amazing. It's state of the art. It's probably the best heart center in Europe. It is. Brilliant. I'd love to do that. Thanks for the invitation. And, um, we'll, we'll organize that for you this year. [00:41:35] But it is, so my experience of working with them has been amazing. I know there are lots of problems and we hear about whatever, but I can't, I can't really express an opinion on it because I, I've not. Been involved in it. So, but, so looking back on your career, you know, starting a charity I imagine is different from starting a business or is it similar? [00:41:57] I mean, how, how did you navigate this? It was, I mean, he started this [00:42:00] charity on the back of a cigarette packet. I mean it, um, my husband went to Germany. He went to Germany, had the treatment, came back, felt a million dollars, and somehow he got hold of a journalist. Don't ask me, I can't even remember how he connected with her, called Marianne Powers who wrote for the Daily Mail, and she thought this story was amazing. [00:42:21] And we got two. She was gonna write a two page editorial for us in the Daily Mail, and at that time we didn't even have a name for the charity. So she said, well, you've got to get a name, you've gotta get registered, you need a board of trustees. All these things were thrown at us and we just did it. I mean, we somehow. [00:42:39] You know, um, he had a very dear friend who happened to be a high court judge who lived across the road. He became a trustee, the accountant became a trustee. So you put this together quickly. We cobbled it together very, very quickly because she said, when I, when this article gets published, you're gonna have so much money pouring in that you've gotta have a charity. [00:42:57] You've gotta be a registered charity. Of course. So [00:43:00] we started to register a charity, and then we couldn't get a bank account. Right. Then we found a friendly banker at Hambros and he opened a bank account for us. It was all done on the back of a back of a cigarette packet, but the, the story the journalist was gonna write was a real impetus to getting everything else put in place. [00:43:17] And I must tell you, so much money poured in, oh, I'll tell you another story that evolved from that. So communications again important. Exactly. Communication is so important. So, um, so she did, and she did two. Two page editorials. That's quite something to have. So she did one initially when Ian was going to Germany, and then she did another one about six months later after he'd been to Germany. [00:43:40] And as I said, the money just poured him, but. Winding the clock forward after the trials had now started and we had what we called a patient's gathering where a lot of the patients were invited down to Barts, and it was the day a lot of the trials were being unblinded. And this woman came up to me and [00:44:00] she said, she gave me a big hug and a kiss. [00:44:02] She said, I can't thank you enough. She said, when we read your first article of the Daily Mail, we decided we're gonna sell our house and my husband's going to Germany to have this treatment. And then the second article came out and we read about this wonderful charity that you'd set up and that it was all going to happen at Barts. [00:44:23] We applied and my husband was treated. She said, and I have my husband still with me today, but we still have our house. We said, I cannot thank you enough. So we both finished up crying. I mean, she was crying. I was crying. It was very emotional. Very, very emotional. And that's, that's amazing. So, but I do think communication is important at every level. [00:44:44] I think if you have to ask me, the one thing young people really should try and establish learn today is how to communicate with people. So when you, when you look at the charity now, um, you know, is different from a business in [00:45:00] important respects, but how, how would you measure success when you evaluate the charity? [00:45:04] If it's, I think I look at too, first of all, it's the wonderful. S families I meet. 'cause when you have something like heart failure, it's not just the patient that's affected, the whole family's affected. And I meet the families and I hear their stories and it's very, very, it's very humbling actually, when you hear, you know, the, the, how their lives have changed and what you've been able to do with them. [00:45:25] And I also find it very satisfying when I see the checks rolling in. Because, so on that measure, you can still measure income? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm very on top of the financial side of things because, you know, we have to, the compassionate unit takes about half a million pounds a year to run, and we have to, on a compassion unit is the one that reaches out that the Compassionate is the one that's operating now, right. [00:45:48] That's running on a weekly basis where we treat pe, where we treat patients from all over the country. It's not a trial, it's just a regular unit. Right. Um, whereas the, the new [00:46:00] trial that we're going to do where we need to raise the 8 million pounds for that will be a trial where half the patients will have the placebo and the other half will have the real deal. [00:46:09] Right. And I suppose the other measure of progress or success is scientific progress, of course. I mean, and you've seen that. Well, we've seen it, and stem cells are now being used across the board, not just for heart failure, although it's the most advanced for heart failure, but it's being looked at for macular degeneration, liver disease, all sorts of things. [00:46:28] Yes, science moves it. Science doesn't stop. No, that's very satisfying. So just looking at your career as a whole, these three different. Amazing careers, chapters, let's call them. Um, you've lived through several reinventions of yourself from fashion to philanthropy. What, what connects what, if anything, connects those chapters for you? [00:46:50] Well, I think the first and second chapter connected very easily because I went from one scenario to another, and I have Marks and Spencer in common. The third one just happened by [00:47:00] default, but again, I put the same energy. Into running or chairing the Heart Cell Foundation as I did to running a business. [00:47:07] I have meetings. I've had three Zoom meetings before I've come here to have this lovely conversation with you today, James. Um, and there's two more than I've had. Well, and I like Zoom meetings 'cause I can see the person. Yes. I, I am a visual person. I really am. You prefer that to talking on the phone. Yeah, I prefer that. [00:47:25] Yeah. Talking on the phone's. Okay. But I, when I'm talking like to our office, I do it always on Zoom because I like to connect. Right. So the common theme I'm hearing it maybe is energy. I've got a lot of energy. I'm saying that. So, and you, and you've said, I mean, I've, I've done my homework. You've said you never want to retire. [00:47:46] No, I never want to retire. I just, I'm not somebody that. No, I, I like doing things. I like having something to aim for. I love having a list of jobs to do that I can cross off at the end of the day. I get, and I do have a [00:48:00] lot of energy. I really do. Yeah, I can see so. You know, this, this is, this is an important theme. [00:48:07] Energy. What, I mean, what do you do personally if I might ask you to ensure that you are fit and energetic and feel up for the day? Well, is there anything, any advice you can give all of us? Well, I, I've always believed in some form of exercise. I mean, it depends on, you know, what you're able to do well, so what do you do? [00:48:21] Well, I have a. Back issue. So I'm quite limited, but I do Pilates and I have a physio who comes twice a week. And I think walking is very important. I think I, if there's an easy way to go somewhere or a longer way to go somewhere, I take the longer way. And I think going up and down steps is very important. [00:48:38] Just moving, moving, keep moving. I think it's really, I think sitting all day in front of a screen, it can't be good for you. No, it really can't be. So keep moving, keep moving. That's your message. Excellent. Um, and what, what, so as we bring the conversation or close, I suppose, what sort of impact would you do you hope to have over the next decade in [00:49:00] terms of the work that you are doing now? [00:49:02] Well, I think for the next generation what we're hoping is that we get this next, this phase three trial up and running, because that will be amazing. That will be fulfilling air and stream that this treatment will be available across the uk because heart failure is one of the biggest killers in this country. [00:49:19] It's, it's far bigger than any cancer. It really is. Very, very, it's very debilitating. It affects the whole family. It also affects the economics of the country because people with heart failure cannot work. Yes. And that's the other thing we found so amazing is that so many of our patients now have gone back to work. [00:49:39] Right. And that's brilliant, isn't it? A, it is very satisfying for them. But it's also good for the country. It doesn't sound, I, I think you said that it was 12,000 pounds a person. Yeah. It's not expensive. No, it doesn't sound ridiculously expensive. It's expensive at all. So to make that more widely available, and I mean, the hospital time is minimal. [00:49:56] And we now also have some patients that don't. They'll [00:50:00] go if they live nearby, they won't even stay in hospital. Right. So it's, it's, and it's, it's non-invasive. You get no rejection. I mean, when you have a heart transplant, which costs I think a four, it costs about 300,000 pounds of heart transplant. [00:50:13] You've got the chance of rejection, whereas this, you don't. So this is, this is something to prevent that. Absolutely. Ideally, oh, to work along. I mean, you are very restricted. You only have about a hundred, a hundred heart transplants a year. Right. Well, you have to have someone else's heart. Absolutely. And a lot of things, a starting point, which isn't great, and you don't always have a match. [00:50:33] You know, you have to, you may have a heart, but it may not be a match for you. Yeah. So this is a good route to go. So this, I mean, I think stem cells are the biggest medical breakthrough of the 21st century. It's really going to revolutionize so many different illnesses. Well, I wish you every success with that. [00:50:51] Thank you very much case. I really hope trial is up and running soon, and that we're able to extend this wonderful innovation and service to a lot more people. Well, thank you very much for giving [00:51:00] me your time today and explaining what I'm doing, and I hope you'll accept my invitation to come to Bar. I certainly will. [00:51:06] Now, I always ask two questions at the end. Oh, okay. Jennifer, of all my guests, and so I'm gonna ask you the first question is. Because we love Mondays at Reed. What is it that gets you up on a Monday morning? What is it that gets me up in the morning? Well, I always have early appointments deliberately. [00:51:22] 'cause I'm not the best at getting up early. So if I have a nine o'clock meeting in my diary, I have to be up for it and I have to be ready for it. I mean, I always do my hair, I always put my makeup. I always get dressed. I'm so old fashioned. Even when we were in lockdown, I did that every morning. Oh, good for you. [00:51:38] I think it's important to uphold standards. I think it is. Standards I think are terribly important. Yeah. That was something else I learned at m and s standards. Right. And my last question, which is, uh, an interview question from my interview book. Why You is, where do you see yourself in five years time? [00:51:57] Well, I'd like to still be here in five [00:52:00] years time. I don't know. Um. I like, well, first of all, the trial will be up and running then definitely in five years time, and we've made enormous progress and it would be much more well known than it is currently. Um, and me personally just doing more the things I enjoy doing. [00:52:20] I mean, I, I, I love going to the, I'm very involved with the art world, which I enjoy. I play Bridge. I've got a lot of interest as well as, as well as my charity. Very good. Well, I wish you all the very best. Thank you. With all of those things. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for inviting me to me today. [00:52:34] It's been a real pleasure. I so enjoyed the conversation. Me too. It's been lovely. Thanks, Jennifer. Thank you. Very good. Great. Okay. That was really good. Covered a lot of ground there from many skirts to heart failure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, we've got a question. One thing, hang on, just out of interest for me, and James knows I love these questions, is sort of what advice would you give to your younger self? [00:52:56] The younger self To your younger self. Yeah. Well, you know, oh, hang on, but, but you might need to put your [00:53:00] microphone back. Oh yeah. Yeah. So what am I, so I'll ask you that question. Yeah. Just sort of, if you were with everything you know now, when you know to yourself, and you were 20, what did you have liked to do? [00:53:16] What would I like to do? Don't look so worried. Ka Katrina. So worried at. So Jennifer, I mean, looking back over your remarkable life and career, is there anything you would like to advise or recommend your young self? My young self, from what you've learned in the journey since you were 20? Well, when I look back on what I've done, I'm amazed at what I've done and how I didn't have any fear. [00:53:40] When I think of what I was doing in my twenties, I was a kid, but I didn't really have any fear whatsoever. I feel that anything I wanted to do, I was able to do. So it sounds like, you know, you, you would've recommended it's your younger self carry on in a fearless fashion. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I, as long as possible. [00:53:56] You were young, you don't have fear. It's like if you learn to [00:54:00] ski when you are young, you are fearless. When you learn to ski at my age, which was 40, I was, I, you know, it wasn't the same scenario. No, but I, I do, when I look back and I think what I did in my twenties, it was unbelievable. Unbelievable. But I, I think a lot of that was because I was very fortunate to be in that position that I was in where I was dealing with very senior business directors who had a lot of, had a lot of con, they felt very, they, what's the word I'm looking for? [00:54:31] They felt. They had a lot of confidence in us. They thought we were, I mean, it takes something when you take a big public company and they get rid of all their senior buyers and put young kids in their twenties in that position, you've got a lot to have, a lot of courage to do things like that. They were pretty fearless too. [00:54:47] They were very fearless. They were very fearless. So there's a buccaneering spirit we are getting here. Buccaneering, that's the word. That's what we hold. Onne. That's it. Absolutely. Buccaneering spirit that every entrepreneur should. But you see, I'm, I, I [00:55:00] always feel that any I, my solution now is there's always a solution to any problem. [00:55:06] As problems occur, and they do for me in various ways, there's always a solution. And we can always find that solution through often through innovation. Through innovation, absolutely. I agree. Great. Happy with that? That wasn't the answer you wanted, was it? No. I think your advice to your younger self was be exactly as you were. [00:55:26] You know, I wouldn't change anything. No, exactly. That's what I heard. That's what I heard. And that's good. Why would you, why would you, would I? It came out well. So we are gonna take your photograph before you disappear. Okay. Do you wanna have a go? Yeah. From the swinging sixties fashion rails to the front line of cutting edge medical research. [00:55:47] Today's guest has reinvented herself more than once. I'm joined by Jennifer Rosenberg, OBE, entrepreneur, former fashion manufacturer for some of the UK's best known [00:56:00] retailers and founder of the Heart Sells Foundation. We'll dive into resilience, reinvention, and what it takes to turn hard moments into meaningful impact for thousands of people. [00:56:13] Great. Um, maybe once more. It was a bit louder at the beginning because I put it up a bit too much. So [00:56:22] from the swinging sixties fashion rails to the frontline of cutting edge medical research, today's guest has reinvented herself more than once. I'm joined by Jennifer Rosenberg, OBE entrepreneur, former fashion manufacturer for some of the UK's best known retailers, and founder of the Heart Sells foundation. [00:56:43] We'll dive into resilience, reinvention, and what it takes to turn hard moments into meaningful impact for thousands of people. Great. Is that all right? Yeah. [00:56:58] Thank you, Jennifer, for joining me on all [00:57:00] About Business. I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to learn more about Reed or the Heart Sell Foundation. You'll find all the links in the show notes. See you next time. Perfect. All right. [00:57:19] Thank you.
This podcast was co-produced by Reed Global and Flamingo Media. If you’d like to create a chart-topping podcast to elevate your brand, visit: http://flamingo-media.co.uk/