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In this episode of all about business, Connor Scully, Senior Executive Consultant at Reed, sits down with James to discuss how professionals can effectively secure a pay rise in their current role.
Connor shares practical advice on how to move beyond the discomfort of pay discussions by focusing on preparation, timing, and proving your worth. The conversation explores how to assess whether you are truly due a salary increase, emphasising the need to align your output with business goals and quantify your impact through measurable KPIs. Connor explains why being proactive, taking on extra responsibilities during company hardships, or "saying yes" to complex projects, is key to becoming an indispensable asset.
Whether you feel underpaid or are looking to take the next step in your career, this episode offers a step-by-step guide to navigating pay conversations with confidence and a growth mindset.
Timestamps
01:18 are you due more
04:00 prep and timing mistakes
08:56 when to job hunt
11:37 ask in person
14:34 say yes more often
19:40 employer perspective on pay requests
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
Find out more about our online course ‘Life's Work: How to get ahead in a career you love’ here: https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/lifes-work-how-to-get-ahead-in-a-career-you-love/466792
James: [00:00:00] Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode I sit down with different guests of bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.
James: So today on all about business, uh, in our spring short season, I'm really, um, excited about this conversation. I'm delighted to welcome Connor Scully into the studio, and we are gonna be talking about. How to get a pay rise. How about that? And Connor, I should say, is a senior executive con consultant at Reed Specialist Recruitment.
James: He specializes in property and construction, a very busy space. And uh, he works [00:01:00] out of our famous Berry Street office. So, Connor, thank you for coming down the road to see me here this morning. You've obviously had many conversations with people about this subject. It's something that I get asked about a lot.
James: Uh. All sorts of people. Yeah. How do I get a pay rise? And so let, let's begin. How should someone assess whether they're due a pay rise, whether they're due a salary increase?
Connor: I would always try and think and picture the question as, am I adding significant value to the business? And if that question is yes, then it's probably a good place to start.
Connor: Um, and am I aligned with the business's goals and targets that we're trying to achieve together?
James: So am I as a worker adding significant value?
Connor: Exactly that. Yeah.
James: Am I adding more value than am I'm being paid? Is of Is clearly important, yeah. For it to be a contributing factor. How do you do that?
Connor: I mean, it can be done like quanti, quantifiable business impact.
Connor: So like how [00:02:00] much value are you putting in day to day? Are your KPIs met based on your last review? Have you exceeded those expectations? There's various ways in which you can sort of put it together. If, if you're not necessarily in a billing role or a commercial role, are you taking on projects that are sort of beyond other people's capabilities?
Connor: That's sometimes where we have that quite difficult question. Well, how can I, how can I have that conversation when it's not necessarily financial? My impact isn't financial. Well, you, you still have targets. Everyone should have like KPIs to meet. Measurable against the day to day job. So
James: KPI, in case people dunno, is key performance indicators.
James: So this, this is where the company said you need to achieve X, Y, and Z.
Connor: Exactly, yeah.
James: You're banging it, nailing it, you're doing that and then you know, the, the, you're being asked to do more and more.
Connor: Yep.
James: Maybe more difficult things, more complex things that maybe you weren't asked to do when you started that.
James: Those are the points you've made.
Connor: Exactly, yeah.
James: And uh, I had a conversation with someone I know quite recently who was asking me some advice [00:03:00] on this, and they were clearly being asked to do a bigger job. Because, you know, their employer realized they're a capable person and they were being asked to do more and more tasks that were above the pay grade indeed, than they had initially joined it.
Connor: Sometimes it can happen as well when, when a business is going through some hardships. So say for example, there's, there's redundancies taking place, some, some middle management might have been removed, and you are, you are taking up duties that you might not necessarily have been doing before. Um, and you are sort of absorbing those.
Connor: Yes. And sort of taking on those accountabilities without actually being recognized for them. It's important to remember them, log them and bring them up in these reviews because it's important that you're recognized for that hard work and, and the value added piece.
James: Yeah. 'cause the jobs changed.
Connor: It does.
James: So the terms have changed accordingly.
Connor: Exactly.
James: Yeah. That's really interesting. I think that's happening a lot at the moment with, with, with businesses adjusting to the difficult economy. And regrettably redundancies
Connor: a hundred percent.
James: But, um, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be paid, paid fairly for the work that they're [00:04:00] doing.
James: So what's the biggest mistake people make when they go into a pay rise conversation?
Connor: I think ult, the number one for me is not being prepared. Um, you've gotta know your numbers. Um, in terms of if you are in a, in a commercial role where it's it's value added, you have to know your numbers. Um, and if so
James: you mean a sales job, for instance?
Connor: Exactly. Sales would, or, or like a commercial manager, QS. Um, anywhere where there's a number, the number is key. If it's not that, and it's, it's, um, something else, I think it's, it's the business impact. What would, what would happen if, if I weren't here fulfilling these duties? Um, I, I think ultimately that is the key.
James: So when this is interesting. So you say the number is key, so everyone's in a different job.
Connor: Yep.
James: By definition, they should be looking for which numbers are the most important sort course Yeah. Of drivers. In their particular role or business.
Connor: Mm-hmm.
James: And they should know them and be able to refer to them when they have this conversation.
Connor: Yeah, exactly.
James: But what about the, just [00:05:00] sort of going up to your boss at the wrong moment. Isn't that a problem? You know, isn't timing important here as well as being well informed?
Connor: Timing is crucial. I mean, like the most important thing on this topic is the fact that it's not always gonna be the right time.
Connor: Because businesses do go through hardship. There's times when there's cutbacks. The business might not necessarily be, be performing at the level in which it wishes to. So being aware of your space and aware of how your team are doing the business is doing in general is so important when asking this topic.
Connor: Um, yeah, it's, it's crucial like knowing where the business are in relation to their goals and, and knowing whether it's realistic to ask for this, this increase.
James: I'm thinking more, you know, it's a busy Monday afternoon, someone says, I want a pay rise. And you sort of get outta my head sometimes. Situation.
Connor: Yeah.
James: I mean, shouldn't we, shouldn't we be scheduling these conversations Of course. A as a sort of formal meeting?
Connor: Always. Yeah, always, always should. They can be brought up in, um, reviews, periodic reviews, monthly [00:06:00] reviews, quarterly reviews, appraisals. Um, so, so
James: if someone doesn't get, I mean, that, that, that, that's good practice that people get reviews, but not everyone does.
James: Do they? So they should ask for a review?
Connor: Yeah. Always ask.
James: Yeah. And, and then say, as part of that, I'd like to have a conversation about my package.
Connor: Yep.
James: So it is good to be up front, is it?
Connor: Oh, absolutely. Always, always do it in person as well, that there's, um, I think post COVID, there's a nervousness around people meeting face to face and, and having that, that sort of communication line in person.
Connor: But ultimately it's the best way to build trust. You can see someone's body language, how they're reacting to your question. And from that you can see where the conversation's going. Um, and, and sort of you should then know whether it is likely of that pay rise, maybe coming.
James: Okay. So you meet your boss face to face in person.
Connor: Yeah.
James: You tell them that you're doing a really good job, the number is good, and you say, I'm not. Getting as much as I feel I should be. [00:07:00] And they say, well, I'm sorry to hear that Connor, but I can't do any anymore for you. Would you
Connor: do that at this, at this time or in in general?
James: Well, that might be your subsequent question at this time or in general.
Connor: I,
James: I mean, yeah. I mean it might, so I mean, they have different outcomes. Those, of course, those answers. But I mean, I was thinking more at this time, I suppose. Yeah. So you would say, so how would you respond to that as a pay rise seeking? Person.
Connor: I think you need to go into the conversation knowing that there is the potential that it doesn't go the way you want it to because they can't always do otherwise.
Connor: Businesses would, businesses, profits would just decrease your, yeah. And
James: also there's lots of other factors involved, like what other people are being paid or,
Connor: exactly. There needs to be parity, doesn't there? But ultimately if you are taking on more responsibility that you feel is above and beyond your pay, and you and you are, you are sort of measuring it.
Connor: You're tracking it and you are being able to evidence the, the work that you're doing above and beyond where you feel you're paid, then you're in with a good shell. [00:08:00] Um, and it's, it's sort of that, it, it's sort of good to be indispensable, but it's also, it can be quite detrimental to you as well, uh, as the person, because when you go onlay, you, you might want to pass your on hold.
Connor: Yeah. You don't necessarily wanna. Be always contactable, but ultimately, sometimes that's what it takes to prove your worth to the business.
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James: Together we can protect wildlife, restore habitats, and help nature thrive. Visit big give.org between the 22nd and the 29th of April. Choose a cause close to your heart and make double the difference. Thank you for supporting Earth rate. But at one point, you know if you like your current [00:09:00] employer, yeah, and you like your boss, but you're not getting a pay rise and you're not being paid what you think you're worth, at what point do you say I'm gonna start looking for another job.
Connor: It's difficult. I think like, you know, your true value and if you genuinely feel like it's fine to like your employees, but ultimately you, you've got a career and you, if you really want to carry that and, and take that somewhere and, and if you've got a vision of the destination or the journey you wanna go on, um, it can be hard staying in the same place no matter how much you like that, that employer.
James: Well, would you advocate saying to that employer, you know, I really like working here. I like working with you, but. I've got other requirements and I think I'm being underpaid. If I don't get a pay raise a whole look for another job. Would you advocate being that direct?
Connor: You could, I think in, in different That's
James: risky though,
Connor: isn't it?
Connor: It is. It is absolutely risky, but in certain industries it's the norm. I like, for example, construction, I mean,
right.
Connor: These conversations happen quite regularly and people are quite abrupt. Um, and so
James: they might say no or yes, but so
Connor: be it. Or, or just clear outlines of when those [00:10:00] expectations can be met.
James: Right.
Connor: Like for example, if in construction, I'll use it as an example 'cause it's the market we work in, but if there's a project that's upcoming that no, we're gonna bring in X amount of million pounds, then it's more likely that that pay review will be put in and, and met. Um, but it just needs to be
James: Oh, so so time it with new sort of business,
Connor: new projects, initiatives,
James: new projects wins.
James: Exactly. That's always a good time. Another strategy might be to say, I'd like to do more. Do you come across that? I'm here, I can do more. I'm available, but I'd like to be paid more as
Connor: well. Yeah, exactly. That. Uh, it's, it's always good to put your hand up,
James: put yourself forward, put your hand
Connor: up without a doubt.
Connor: And sometimes it's saying yes without actually saying yes, just doing it right. Um, and we, we see that in, again, in, in our space, in our office with, with people just absorbing sort of those, those management duties that might not necessarily be asked of, but you just do it. You take accountability and you, and you sort of.
Connor: You get on with the day to day, and then you remember, you remind people later, you
James: [00:11:00] keep the note to that and remind them. Yeah,
Connor: exactly.
James: Yeah. And say, well, look at me this, look at what I'm doing now.
Connor: Or like what you mentioned there about, um, you know, saying yes. Yeah. Almost putting your hand up. I want to, I wanna take on more responsibility,
James: so the more I'm talking to you, Connor, the more I'm thinking that there's a, this is all about being proactive.
Connor: A hundred percent.
James: Dynamic, whether it's your contribution to the company or the conversations you're having with your line manager, that you're having a, a sort of live experience of ensuring that you are adding value, of
Connor: course.
James: And the more value you add, the more you will be paid. Ultimately, that's your message.
James: Is it?
Connor: It is, yeah. And it's all about building trust. Um, and that's why, again, I can't stress strongly enough that this conversation should take place in person, um, just because. So much can be lost over a screen. It's so important to have these, these interactions in person so you can truly get across how you feel.
Connor: Um,
James: so don't ask for a pay rise on
Connor: FaceTime. I think it's [00:12:00] difficult, isn't it? Because you Well, that's what you're saying.
I've
James: never done it, but
Connor: I,
James: yeah,
Connor: it just takes away a little bit of the emotion. It's, we, we see loads and loads of interviews happening now on, on Teams Zoom, um, yeah. Over a screen. It's great.
Connor: It's sort of. Change the world really, hasn't it? But in terms of,
James: but when you're actually working with people Exactly. You need to sit with them. And this is a
Connor: conversation. Unless there's a, like a, a reason why that conversation cannot take place in person. It should be done in person.
James: This is, that's very interesting because that puts asking for a pay rise in quite a small category of conversations That absolutely should be in person.
James: I'm thinking of others. I mean, they're probably all sorts of funny things, but, but you know, there, there, there aren't that many that you would say. If you're gonna do that, make sure it's in person,
Connor: because it can be diluted, can't it? If you, if you bring it up and it's not necessarily a structured, uh, you know, put in the diary review or anything like that, it, the message could be lost over a screen.
Connor: Whereas in person, you can be quite clear and sort of concise with your [00:13:00] request and, and the reasons in, in which, why. And it's secured time, isn't it, when it's in the diary. There's no distractions. People can't come in and interrupt, like it's very much protected time.
James: So you've described a situation where an individual's contributing a lot or more, and that's the basis on which they would ask for a pay rise.
James: We also have a situation where just prices are going up, you know, inflation has been high. Um, what do you suggest people do in that situation?
Connor: It's, it's a valid point, I think. Um. It's always good to know the value you are, you are adding and the cost in which your replacement might be. So being in touch with your market, knowing what competitors are paying for the res roles and responsibilities you're taking on, because
James: how do you do that?
Connor: Um, it's the mark. The data's all out there. You just gotta go and use the web.
James: Just look online.
Connor: Yeah. It's, it's all available to you. Um,
James: in five minutes probably.
Connor: And obviously we've got, um, chat, GPT, all, all [00:14:00] these AI tools now that can sort of get this information to you even quicker than you could before.
James: So yeah, if you want to know what the going rate for a quantity surveyor is in Milton Keynes, absolutely you can find out out pretty quickly.
Connor: And also like the chances are if you're a quantity surveyor, you've probably gone to university with individuals of the same ilk. You'll be having conversations with them about how they're getting on where they are in their careers and.
Connor: You've just gotta be really in touch with your market. It's all about being in the center of that market and, and knowing where you are in comparison to your peers, um, and being able to relay that to your employer.
James: Right? How do you know if you're better than your peers at your job?
Connor: You just say yes more.
Connor: I think it is also
James: say yes more to what's a request to do stuff.
Connor: Yeah. I think it just, or you'll
James: learn more doing that for
Connor: sure. You'll, yeah, and it's, I think, um, the more you say yes, the better opportunities come your way. And, um, people will remember the fact that you've said yes to, to all the opportunities you have.
Connor: And, and you'll, you'll sort of five years down the line, you'll be in a completely different place based on people who maybe haven't taken on that [00:15:00] responsibility.
James: You reminded me of a saying. More often you say yes, the sooner you'll be having an adventure.
Connor: I've, I've seen that somewhere
James: actually. I, I like that saying, I remember telling it to my kids and it's true, but in the workplace, say yes and you'll go further, be paid more and have more of an adventure, is kind of the message I'm hearing.
Connor: Exactly that. Yeah. It's um, it's amazing what happens when you, when you take on stuff and, and you look back actually like in your own, I look back at my career and. And how it's developed over the course of time and the majority of opportunities that have come my way of because been because I've said yes, taken on a bit more responsibility and, and sort of developed
James: there, there is a sort of counter view of people say, well, that's not in my job description, or, you know, that's not what I've been asked to do here.
James: That, what do you say to them?
Connor: I'd say that's, it's not necessarily a growth mindset. It depends on what sort of person you wanna be. But if you are the sort of person that's gonna be asking for a pay rise. I would assume, um, you, [00:16:00] you are fairly confident of being able to secure that because if, if you've got your ducks in a row and you know exactly what your value add is, the number as we mentioned before, and if it's not that you know what, what's being asked of you that's not being asked of other people, you'd be confident enough to go into that conversation, if that makes sense.
James: So if, if they, if they, you go into the conversation, you start with some confidence that you might achieve what you want and, but you get rebutted. Um, and I'm interested in this because how do you come back? Is, is it, is it fair to say, well, what do I need to do to get a pay rise?
Connor: Absolutely. That's a fair question.
Connor: I think ultimately if you, if if reviews aren't a thing in your world, it would be good to sort of make sure they are and ask for those to be put in. So, so if not, not how
James: frequently.
Connor: Yeah, exactly. So I would say in our business, we do them sort of. Monthly. Um, but they can be put in quarterly, six monthly.
Connor: The, the pay reviews as a standard are probably done six monthly [00:17:00] depending on what your role is. Um, but yeah, I would say making sure that those are in and reviews are taking place sort of. So you
James: wanna have a regular conversation where you can raise it again.
Connor: Exactly.
James: What about asking for a bonus if something happens that's positive,
Connor: you come across that?
Connor: I don't think that's a bad idea
James: in terms, I'm just thinking about other strategies.
Connor: Yeah. It's become more and more like. Um,
James: yeah. Whether that's aligned with a business outcome.
Connor: Yeah, absolutely. If it's become more and more relevant in roles, which is like fee earning or generating, like business development, especially in construction, like everything's about the, the, the final project and how much that that project is gonna generate.
Connor: Actually, if you know that your role. Is key in making sure that that project is over the line, then you are more entitled to ask for that bonus. Yeah. It depends what the individual's sort of wants are really.
James: But this point you've made about the replace cost of replacing somebody that has to be handled quite delicately, doesn't [00:18:00] it?
James: Because you know that is real.
Connor: Mm-hmm.
James: Um, typically it's gonna take a bit of time to recruit someone. Sure there's gonna be a fees involved. Potentially. You're probably gonna have to pay a premium anyway on the salary. But if you push that button too hard, you look disloyal and sort of grabby, don't you?
Connor: You do. Yeah. You, you wanna try and position it so
James: that, how do you, how do you make sure that sort of, someone's sort of aware of that without it being too obvious?
Connor: You, you don't want it to be an ultimatum.
James: No, definitely not.
Connor: You're trying to build trust. Um, it's an appro you, you've gotta approach the conversation with caution, but also as the conversation has gone on, this is something that you probably do towards the end of the conversation when you know which way it's going.
Connor: So. Um, you've alluded to the fact that maybe it's not gonna happen yet. There's a project we're waiting to win. That might not necessarily come off. If it doesn't, it's probably less likely to happen. And if that's the case, then um, you've almost got to. Picture, allow the, the individual you are dealing with, the hiring manager [00:19:00] to picture a world without you in it, without saying, I'm leaving.
James: Well, you could say something. I'm just thinking, listening to you, you could say something like, I really wanna build my career here.
Connor: Yeah, it's a journey together. Like,
James: but that's not saying you're gonna do that for sure, because this outcome hasn't been
Connor: Exactly. It's, it is a partnership. So you wanna say, look, I'm in the boat with you and we're rowing together.
Connor: I just maybe need a bigger a I need, I need a bit of help. And, and these are the reasons why. This is what I've done. This is what I've delivered, and I should, should be paid in, in parity with that.
James: Yeah. If one all is being pulled harder than the other, the boat goes in south, well maybe we will, we'll get
Connor: bigger rules.
James: So that, that's sort of, uh, that, that's, that's quite important, isn't it?
Connor: Mm-hmm.
James: Is there any other advice? What, what advice would you give to an employer? You know, when someone says, I think I'm worth more. What, what would you say to them? Because they may or may not be
Connor: the
James: exactly how should they, how should they approach it?
Connor: And it's important to like seriously think about whether that individual is adding significant value. [00:20:00] Are they going above and beyond in their role? What would life look like without them? How much is it gonna cost to replace that person? Because we all know that, you know?
James: Yeah.
Connor: You, you mentioned earlier about the.
Connor: Costs are rising everywhere. Are you gonna be able to go into the marketplace and nitpick someone for a lesser salary that will take on the same accountabilities? This, this individual is, it's not a guarantee. There's a lot of like moving factors that you can't confirm without having looking in the market.
Connor: So it's really difficult. I think the, the, the employer should delve into the, the person's availability. Honesty in the conversation and actually whether they are delivering those deliverables.
James: Yeah. I mean, how much they value them ultimately in this relationship.
Connor: Exactly. Yeah.
James: I mean, and the, and the better the, the people know each other, the better you'll be able to judge that
Connor: a hundred
James: percent.
James: So being close to your team is really important.
Connor: It's all about that trust piece. And I think the more those reviews are [00:21:00] booked in periodically, you've almost got the chance over the course of the year to. Express if you're feeling a little low or the, the reasons in, in why you feel you're taking on more than maybe you should be.
Connor: Um, and then it doesn't become as much of a surprise when that person does ask for a pay rise.
James: No, I mean, the employer might say, well, yeah, we're all under a lot of pressure right now. Clearly, and you know, I feel that too, Connor. Thanks for mentioning it.
Connor: Yeah. But it, it also depends on how much you like the business, how much you like the people you work with.
Connor: Yeah, for
James: sure.
Connor: And can you see yourself in that journey with that business for a long time? If that, if the answer to that question is yes, then you'll stick at it. Um, and maybe the pay rise will come.
James: Yeah. I don't think people should be crest fallen if they get a no.
Connor: No, of course. No, no, no, no. Because
James: if the answer, I mean, I've been on both sides of these conversations.
James: Yeah. And I've said no to people in the past, but I have often thought, well, if you do X, Y, and Z or grow in this way, then yeah, sure, let's have another conversation. So I think if, if, if it is a [00:22:00] no from a, a applicant's perspective or candidate's perspective. Then they, they ought to be asking, well, what do I do next to make it a yes,
Connor: of course.
Connor: If it's a, if it's a hard no, then the, the employer must recognize that they're sort of opening the door for that person to look elsewhere.
James: Well, that might be a message to the person that they're not really
Connor: in the plans
James: Yeah. For
Connor: the future. Um, in which case you, you would, you would automatically start looking for another job, right?
James: Yeah.
Connor: So, um, it is a two way street. There's no, there's no doubt about that.
James: Yeah. It's a relationship based, like, good relationship should be on trust.
Connor: A hundred percent. Yeah.
James: Good. Any last advice for anybody either considering a pay rise or asking for one?
Connor: I think ultimately it is confidence. Like you, you need to go in.
Connor: I would never ask for a pay rise if I wasn't confident in my ability and what I've been doing in the role that I'm paid to do. Because ultimately, if you're, if you're not confident, you're not gonna convince someone else of of your worth.
James: No. And confidence has gotta be based on reality
Connor: a [00:23:00] hundred percent.
Connor: Your
James: actual contribution and value,
Connor: because if you're not confident and, but you are entitled, it can come across as arrogant, which is not what you want, you wanna be, you wanna come across as it's a partnership. We're together, we're trying to move in this direction, and from my perspective, this is what needs to happen in order to make that reality.
Connor: Yeah.
James: I think thinking about that word, confidence, where does it come from in terms of when you know you're doing a good job? And you know what you're worth because you've looked around and you can see what others in the similar space are getting, and also that you know that you are contributing a lot more than you're taking out.
Connor: It shows that you're resourceful as well. Yeah. Like you're using the, the data that's available to you, to the best of your ability.
James: Yeah. But you're confident for a good reason.
Connor: Mm.
James: That you're well informed and you're doing a good job if you, if your starting point is there. You are quite likely to be successful in the conversation, if not immediately, then probably in a few months time over
Connor: the, the course of time.
Connor: Yeah. Yeah. As long as that, those, those metrics are in place that we know that, okay, it might not [00:24:00] happen now, but in three months, can we talk about it? If I meet X, Y, Z?
James: Yeah.
Connor: If I, if I do the following, am I more likely to get a yes? And I think those, those conversations are the fallback. If, if, if it is an immediate no, you know what happens now?
Connor: Always follow up and make sure there's another question at the backend conversation. Yeah. Keep a
James: record of these conversations and keep a record of the expectations that, and and suggestions that have been made so you can deliver against them a
Connor: hundred percent.
James: Very good. Well, thanks Connor for coming in to talk to me about how to get a pay rise. I feel better informed than I did before, and I hope our listeners do too. Um, I want to ask just a couple of questions I ask at the end. You know, we at Reed Love Mondays, as you know. Okay. So what is it that gets you up on a Monday morning, Connor?
Connor: I, uh, that is a good question. Um, I think, like I'm, I'm a, from a football background, so we always spoke in the changing room about. Those one percents and, and the sort of [00:25:00] marginal, marginal gains of, of sort of getting better every day and, and compounding. And I think I always think about having a better week than we did last week and how, how can we sort of best prepare going into the, the week ahead.
Connor: Um, and if, if we do that week on week, then we are doing something right. So I think ultimately it is that just try and have a better week than we did before. And in the, over the course of time, you'll be in a good place.
James: Yeah. If, if every week's better than the one before, it certainly will be. Thanks. Well, that's a, a very interesting thought.
James: And my last question, which is from my book, why You 101 interview Questions You'll Never Fear again, Connor is where do you see yourself in five years time?
Connor: I would like to be in a position where I'm looking after construction in general for business. Um, but. I just wanna keep placing people in the construction world.
Connor: Um, I've been doing it for, coming up to 11 years now. Really enjoy it. Um, and just adding, adding value in the marketplace and, and sort of almost put and read in the [00:26:00] center of that construction world because obviously we're very, very well known in other specialisms, um, that we, we are definitely making strides to, to be.
Connor: A known go-to for recruitment in the construction space.
James: Well, very good. I wish you absolute success with that. A million million houses need to be built. So I'd like to to be very much in the middle of that. Thank you very much for coming in and talking to me, Colin. Thanks. Having that was very interesting and instructive.
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