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[00:01:18] Well today on all About Business, I'm really delighted to welcome Fiona Lady Carnarvon.
[00:01:43] Um, you are the eighth Countess of Carnarvon and, uh, best known as the Lady of High Clear Castle, which is the lady of the Real John Abbey, the Lady of the Real Downton Avin. I couldn't have said it better myself. Um, and um, obviously that was a hugely popular television show, but you also [00:02:00] run a very substantial business at High Clear.
[00:02:03] And I remember listening to the radio about two or three winters ago, and you were on, and it was in December, talking about some of the things you had coming up. And I thought at the time, this is a serious enterprise and you are definitely a serious entrepreneur. So I'm delighted you've come in to talk to me today.
[00:02:17] And for those people listening who only really know high clear through Downton Abbey or as a result of Downton Abbey, can you tell us a little bit to begin with Fiona, about. Well, so of, describe the business if you like as it is today. What's, what's there? What are you managing? Well, today Hyatt is really a hospitality heritage business.
[00:02:38] So we employ about 60 full-time people and in the summer and another a hundred, 150 part-time people who help us over our busy period plus on the farm or extra pairs of hands in the garden, A mixture of interns. You know, all of whom obviously paid to, uh, probably more senior members of staff who were in their late [00:03:00] eighties.
[00:03:00] I'm not sure whether anyone's 90 yet. Right. But it's the whole gamut of the community and it's about welcoming people and making them happy. We are cooking and feeding 1200 people a day. For 60 to 70 days a year, which is quite a lot. And managing the general public and seeing what goes wrong, so right planning and preparation, that is at the heart of it and business strategy.
[00:03:27] And then outta that, we have guided tools. So we have people at high clear for probably for three or four days of every week and more in the summer throughout the year. Three or four days of every week throughout the year. Yeah. So you are, you are running and then much more in the summer year, almost year round.
[00:03:42] Almost continuous year. So yeah. And we're very busy now with Christmas. Right. So, and, and. What, what are the main sort of activities running into Christmas that you would Well, I started doing a big, uh, Christmas offering at High Clear. Before, beforehand it was more about charity. I [00:04:00] used to do some charity days.
[00:04:01] Then I sat next to a trustee, a trustee from Plenum, and he said, um, Fiona. Lenin's profits come from Christmas, so I thought, call bli me, write, get going girls. So I ended up writing a book Christmas at High Claire, and from that, peeling off the different events that make Christmas special. So there's obviously food and there's carols and there's, you know, evening parties and daytime parties.
[00:04:29] So just trying to offer about six different events. And then by complete chance, I ended up meeting a man called Gerald Dickens, who's the great grandson of Charles Dickens. And he comes for two days, um, just the 18th and 19th of December every year, and he performs a Christmas carols. So one man. Stage play.
[00:04:51] I wanted to see that already. What your Charles Dickens is great grandson in the really, and it's so special. He comes down the stairs, he looks [00:05:00] just like you'd imagine Charles Dickens and he bangs his gong. Not quite like that, saying Marley is dead, and off we go. But it's just entirely magical and I think everyone who sits.
[00:05:12] There, you know, as the light glimmers down, I don't like turning the lights on and then we all go for supper afterwards. Right. It is entirely wonderful. So I imagine this, this is a sellout, is it? Actually, it's the most expensive event. It's the fewest people. It sells out almost within a week. I mean, I'm trying to be like Glastonbury.
[00:05:30] I was just thinking about sell out before anything happens. So people skewing up that. That sounds fantastic. It is. And and when you said you were talk, talking to the A trustee from Blenheim, you mean Blenheim Palace. Oh, I mean Blen Palace where they have the big Christmas Fair, isn't it? There's a huge, they have huge, I saw a big various wheel and thing going when I drove past, and I find that quite scary.
[00:05:49] 'cause there's an outlay of millions, which I don't have, you know, we don't have any trust fund, we don't have any obviously pot of gold. We stand there in our. Cotton socks at the start of each month thinking [00:06:00] how we're going to bring in enough revenue to pay, firstly the salaries, and then secondly, the other variable and, and or fixed costs depending where we are at the start of in the month of the year.
[00:06:11] So it's just Jordan and I are trying to be entrepreneurial. But having said that, again, it's about planning and preparation. So I will put out my Christmas tickets to sell in April. Of each year, and they would've been sold out by September. Then I see if I can squeeze a few more people in. I have something called Friends of High Clear, which is designed to take people behind the scenes and I reserve some tickets for them as well.
[00:06:35] So there's layers of different ways of entertaining people and having some Christmas teas. And one of our team dressed up as father, CLA Father Santa Claus, father Christmas. So some people can have tea with Santa Claus, which is always popular, right? But we are not so much a children enterprise. We are slightly older.
[00:06:54] It's when the children aren't around having. Tea with your granny, your sisters, your cousins. Right. [00:07:00] And people sometimes book the same day every year. It's magic. Right. So you, you mentioned behind the scenes tours. What, what, what's available for people who want to see behind the scenes? So, friends of CLE was a, is a different enterprise.
[00:07:13] Many, again, large stately homes have various charities to try to raise money to support them. And I looked into that James, but it seemed to take more money to more lawyers to set up various charitable bodies than to actually, um, just actually sadly just work, right? So I thought having investigated it, I would rather do something which gave people some value.
[00:07:39] Um, friends of Heley came about because I went to a Chen Kamo exhibition and they kindly showed me round out of hours. It was utterly magical. And then they said, would you like to sit down and have some 3D glasses and have a 3D experience, whatever it was called, Chen Kamo. And I said, where was this? Or this was in London, right about.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] Just before COVID actually, right? Literally about a week or two before, and I thought, well, not really, but I must be polite and say yes. So that would be lovely. Yes, please. Yes. So I went and sat down in the chair and put on these 3D glasses and I. I was blown away. I couldn't remember anything else that I'd seen for the whole day, so I thought, great.
[00:08:22] Well, perhaps that's what I can set up at High Clear. So I managed to find a team who could do 3D filming for me and create these virtual reality videos. Each of which takes sort of 10 days to download. It's quite a complicated edit and nor can you edit things together. It's one take at a time or you hear them moaning as I come out 'cause I've got it wrong.
[00:08:46] And, and then so we have uploaded those. I have friends on Friday, we have special events, we have a book club, so we have different levels of subscription, subscription platform to raise money. You gone already from Heritage Hospitality to [00:09:00] sort of. Virtual reality. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting job. And would you explain why you are interested Intu and Carmen?
[00:09:05] Because that's a very, a very important part of the story. Fascinating. Danton Abbey and Tootin Carmen in one home, high clear castle. So we are so lucky and Jordan and I created an exhibition to celebrate the discovery of Tchen Ka. 'cause my husband, Jordy's great-grandfather, discovered the tomb of Tchen KA in 1922 with Howard Carter.
[00:09:30] So it was almost beyond belief what they found. And sadly, Georgie's great-grandfather died. He effectively gave his life. Um. When he was out in Egypt. Um, so we're left with the legacy in what he found, but also the very important fact that nothing from Chen Ka came back to high clear. We have the discovery and the story of the discovery, but everything stayed in Cairo and luckily for us, he wrote in a letter to Howard [00:10:00] Carter.
[00:10:00] I think everything should stay. In Egypt. So we have the story, the discovery, the resilience, the passion and obsession for this extraordinary ancient world, but also in today's world, uh, the acknowledgement that it was Egyptian. So that is part of Halo's story, and he was the most famous Caron. Um, and then of course we had Downton Abbey come along.
[00:10:25] So we have two planks to our marketing or ways to entice or begyle people plan to come to high failing that good food. And um, so those are really the two planks of my marketing, what I'm trying to share, but equally. High clear. There's been a home at high clear since 749 ad, or those are my earliest written records and I have landscape records dating back to Neolithic Times, so I really like the fact I can walk in time for six or 7,000 years and I can share that again [00:11:00] with visitors, with guests, with friends of cle.
[00:11:02] Just I think to give us a sense of continuity. And if you can look back sometimes, perhaps you can have hope for the future. 'cause at the moment I think it is a very troubled world and many of the values and the cultural values have been thrown up in the air and we're all wondering where they're going to land.
[00:11:20] So I think history and heritage can just help give you some time out to forget all about everything else. And that's a big draw for people coming to visit you. Mm-hmm. That they can do that. I can see the appeal of that instantly. So you've, you've, you've written a book, Fiona, it's just recently published called A Year at High Clear.
[00:11:39] Um, there's no thank you. I try and write a book every two years. And the latest one You do one every two. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's very impressive. It's certainly beaten me. That's, I don't think it's a competition, it's just if you ever published this, what's next then? Yeah. Otherwise you lose your place in their, so let's talk about a year at cle.
[00:11:54] Yeah. How, well, how did you frame that and what, well, I thought. I've written history books, I've written cooking [00:12:00] books and gardening books. You know, you, you go around thinking what, how to share this extraordinary home. And then I thought, um, as the third film, the grand finale was coming out, it might be quite fun to share life today at High Claire.
[00:12:14] And some of the stories, 'cause when I go out and people say, have you got any ghost? I said yes or what's it like Christmas? Well, can we have more of that in a minute? Or entertaining royally or what's it like to live with a film crew? So I thought I would create a book looking at the seasons of the year and devote different chapters to pull out and highlight what, what life was like in that month.
[00:12:35] So, you know, in March. March was when the film crew first turned up in 2010. So I thought I would write about living with a film crew and hearing the gravel crunch under the tires as the first of the white fans arrived with masses of equipment on it, because that's really what you are, you are a white fan l car park for months on end.
[00:12:58] See, I was a, when you said the, [00:13:00] the, the, the noise on the drive. I was a. V visualizing sort of Bentley rolling in as you would see, as you would see in the film. Not a white van, which is what your experience was. So that an Arctic lorries. Yeah. So that's the reality isn't a lot of that is the reality. A lot of kit coming in out.
[00:13:18] So that sounds like hard work. You know, it, we go, you was, but you sort of get into a rhythm of it and it's a 13 hour day with 11 hour filming and from which they'd hoped to get four and a half minutes for television. So I, as a 11 hours of filming. Yes. So as a, I'm a chartered accountant by training and I've been auditing business and I just think I'm not going to invest in that business 'cause it's completely bonkers.
[00:13:42] But, um, nevertheless, it makes a lots of people happy and it clearly worked and works. Right. I mean, it, it was a hugely successful series. And then the, the, the final film has just come out recently. So is that, is that, is Downton Abbey done? Well, ID thought Harry Potter's probably got to [00:14:00] number 19 now. So, um, no comment is the answer.
[00:14:04] So, okay. Well we wait with, with B breath. So, so what else, what else is featured in your year? In high. Well, that was spring. And then I've obviously, I've got far too many dogs. So that was, how many dogs do you have? I have eight at the moment. Right? What breed are they? A mixture of Labrador and Spaniels.
[00:14:22] Right. And two little spaniel puppies. Oh my God. So this, oh, we love puppies. They were, um, looking at themselves. They'd never seen themselves in a mirror before, so Oh my goodness. You, they just bring such light and life. So you're gonna keep the puppies. Oh yeah, I've just got them. So, yes. Oh, you've just acquired And they haven't just been bought.
[00:14:41] Okay. They're a surprise for my husband. Right. So I didn't warn him. So I thought that was easier that, that. So that was another chapter and then I wrote about, um, nature and nurture because we are a farm. We've been farming here for, I dunno, well busy obviously thousands of years. There has been farming attlee [00:15:00] and my husband's.
[00:15:02] Been at Hila since 1677, which means he looks pretty good, but his family have been farming there for a few hundred years. Right. So then, and it's very challenged. The farming is very challenged. Oh my goodness. Yeah. At the moment. I mean, anyone watching Clarkson's Farm would obviously realize that, but you read that a lot about that in the news as well.
[00:15:22] What are the main challenges? Uh, the. Uh, the fixed asset value of all the equipment you need to farm and tread as likely as possible on this earth to farm efficiently is way in excess of what you'd normally invest into a business with its turnover, and you'd only do it for the long term and handing onto the next generation, which is the whole thing at the moment.
[00:15:47] So it just, it's a, I find it fascinating. Um. And I love it, and I want us to grow food really well for us all to eat locally and seasonally, [00:16:00] James, but it's really hard to keep going. And money from the castle now is what we'll use to support the farm because despite the fact we have 2000 arable acres and sheep, we are losing money.
[00:16:14] So goodness knows what is happening to everybody else. I mean, and it's things like. You know, no one's buying or investing in new sprayers, for example. So the spraying company from which we bought our sprayer has gone bankrupt. So we've now got no spare parts for the sprayer, which we've got. Right. There are so many small challenges all along the food chain, if you like, as farmers today are not investing in the future 'cause they don't think there is a future and actually we need to grow trees.
[00:16:45] George and I have planted 22,000 trees over the last two years, but we also needed to eat. So one chapter is about nature and nurture and nurturing nature. 'cause that's what makes a successful farm. And I have written about [00:17:00] that for various newspapers as well, including the Telegraph, not, not to sort of preach, but just to share some of.
[00:17:07] Why it's so important and for a, you know, the old story is that for a loaf of bread, which you know, sells for two pounds 50 in the supermarket, I think we are paid a penny and I think four pins would make a huge difference to us. But it's just not making any, is that actually the economics? Yes. So for the wheat, it's just, um, you know, and I've got wonderful photographs of, of all the wheat and the barns and from that wheat, from those tiny seeds we, you know, millet to make flour and bread.
[00:17:35] And actually during the Christmas period for which we're cooking for people now, we use a quarter of a ton of flour to make all the different cakes and, and, um, you know, poni, whatever we're doing, um. But you, you do need flower. And we've got one of the oldest medieval barns in southern England, and that again, is a cathedral.
[00:17:56] It's a statement and it's a, it's a sort of hymn. [00:18:00] Him to the harvest and what we actually should collect in. So it's not trying to say farmers are trying to be greedy, it's just we're trying to continue. And you are saying that, uh, you mentioned as a chartered accountant, I mean you are qualified accountant looking at the business of this very hard, in a hard nos fashion, actually looking at the capital costs of the equipment and how you cannot make that.
[00:18:22] Pay over a reasonable period because of the other issues affecting farming. So I mean, you are talking here partly I think about the inheritance tax change that affect farmers inheritance be protesting a very, you know they have and it's not. Is it about that? Partly it is that part because of Farmer today is not investing in another combine harvest of 750,000 pounds.
[00:18:44] Payable on the, you know, whatever, however you finance it, because he's not sure whether he might suddenly die. And then that, and the tractor alone will put you at the million pound mark on which you're after, which you're going to be taxed. So the economics that the treasury have presented in their economic [00:19:00] case it is, is false.
[00:19:01] There's no incentive to be in a successful farmer, in fact, no. And because your farm would be more valuable than you'd have to pay more tax. It's, yes. So that is so silly. And investing in this country, I think we should actually have, so we are just building a new, um, event space Instead of having a marquee and because it's a new investment and a new building, we have to pay for the outside structure out of taxed.
[00:19:26] Income. We can't set it off against our taxable income. I mean, again, that is boning. Why is that? Is that just a rule? 'cause it is a rule. Yeah. So they should be encouraging people to invest in this country, to put money into this country, not tax you, not make you do it after taxed income when the tax is so high.
[00:19:49] So there are many straightforward things which would encourage people to invest. And invest in the farm and, and look after it. And I don't think many of us in this country are [00:20:00] being necessarily greedy. We're all trying to survive. And equally well on the other side. I understand how tough it is. So, you know, our prices for next year are the same as last year.
[00:20:11] And in general admission time it's 25 pounds to come round high clear. Because I think we are all struggling with money and I don't want people to think I'm. You know, making, making a mint outta Downton and then not supporting others. Yeah. So you've fixed the price so it won't be going up. People listening will know I'm already selling tickets.
[00:20:29] Yes. Yeah, yeah. To coaches and things like that. And I think many of our base market are, you know, wonderful people who perhaps, you know, are coming down on a coach from Western. A super mayor or from Newcastle, no one's got a lot of disposable income, but a day out is a treat. So I'm always wanting to make sure that I'm also trying to look after them.
[00:20:48] And a cup of tea is two pounds 50 or whatever it is. 'cause I think that matters as well. So. So we. We are a business which tries to do our best. And profit is not [00:21:00] my, um, it's not the bottom line, although I can't afford to lose money. So I have, you know, George and I are always discussing where we can put the balance and where we can find.
[00:21:10] The marginal contribution, right. To make, to give us the ability to survive as well. So you're really looking to sort of achieve continuity. Is that, is that fair? Beyond profitability, longevity, I suppose. I think longevity, stewardship, and I think high clear and similar stake homes are in the business of.
[00:21:29] Being, in a sense, a metaphor for looking after this world and being here for future generations of visitors in a hundred years time to come and see, to go and stand under a seated tree. This is amazing. Yes. So it's things like that. And you, it's not. Um, either pillaging nature or pillaging people's purses.
[00:21:46] It's trying to find a fair balance and explain to people what their options are. Some people have more money and want a special treat, a smaller guided tool, and for that it's more money, but it's up to people to choose and it's up to us to give [00:22:00] them the choice from which they can choose. So, and in order to do that, I plan and prepare a long way in advance.
[00:22:07] So I've opened my tours in 2026 until November the fifth. Right. So then people can make their choices. Right. And if they've booked an afa, know they can get tickets. Yes. Fantastic. So yeah. So you, do you feel you're sort of custodian of this wonderful place? I am. I'm just the steward. I'm just a custodian.
[00:22:26] A steward. Yeah. But that's what I think we all should be of, you know, the people we work alongside. The trees that we sit under and look up of the nature and the nurture and this world we look after and, you know, some of the most amazing people are doing shout outs and David Attenborough's in his nineties and his with the most powerful voice to do a shout out thing.
[00:22:47] Just go slow, think before you do something, which, from which we can't come back. And that that's, that's very definitely a business philosophy that. That you just a espouse, which I would [00:23:00] applaud. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's interesting seeing it in the context of High Clear Castle and the business you're running there.
[00:23:07] You mentioned, um, your husband, Jo's family's been there, I think you said, since 1677. Yes. And, and you mentioned there were some ghost stories. Do they, everybody wants to know about the ghost. I wanna hear why the, it's Christmas time. It's November. Yeah. Tell us a ghost story idea. So anyway, in a year, have you seen a ghost there or can tell us?
[00:23:27] Yeah, I did see it ghost. I do see a ghost there. Come on, I wanna hear this. It's the first ghost story we've had on the podcast. Oh, is it? It is. I'm really excited. Please tell me. But I the first steely home as well. You are? And you're the first farmer. Oh, good. My god. What? So there are lots of firsts in this episode, so thank you.
[00:23:41] First. Am I the first gardener? Uh, I, I wouldn't. Be sure about that. That, but you're the first person to talk about gardening. Oh, okay. So we can do a bit of that. I didn't want to be fast. No. So I'm very happy to first go. No. So there are, but, and before my husband, um, my family owned it, it was owned by the Bishops of Winchester for [00:24:00] 800 years.
[00:24:01] So people have lived here a long time. And, um, the innards of the old building are within the current castle. Right. So it's just been reformed and, you know, um, um, recycled transformed. So each over succeeding iterations, yes, but no. So I was with Edward, my son Eddy, who you know. Mm-hmm. And he was about three or four years old.
[00:24:21] It was on a, it was actually on a winter afternoon. I can't quite remember. J and I were taking photographs in the castle for a new guidebook. So Jordy staged back with the photographer and it was Eddie's tea time and you know, with your own children how important tea time is. Yeah. So we left the castle to go out back to the tea room so I could get him something to eat, and we went down some old stairs and the bottom of the stairs.
[00:24:44] I had one of those, I think they had got them from Argos, the little red trike, which had an electric pedal, which was such fun, and you could put him on there. And then it was much easier to get around places. So I plunked him on there and we [00:25:00] went through a door and turned right and he can put his foot down.
[00:25:02] And So you inside or outside? Inside. Inside. Inside the castle. We're still inside the castle. Mm-hmm. Down some old flight of dark stairs through some old fire doors. We turned right. And as we turned right to go along a long corridor, I saw a figure approaching from over my left shoulder. And he was a bit taller than I sort of dressed in black and he had a gray cavat or something.
[00:25:26] Right. And as I was pushing Edward along in front of me, I turned and he, he was following right, which, um, didn't film me. Me a, I'm feeling a bit and I was thinking to, is your foot flat down darling? He was always a careful driver. Still is? And, and he says, yes, mommy. So I was pushing him along with the foot, flat down, well being followed by this and this, there was our old.
[00:25:49] Labrador Percy, who was the other side of some fire doors, and he was barking madly and he would not bark at Eddie and I, and as we burst through those fire [00:26:00] doors, the chap following me stopped, and which was lucky, and I went through, so I'm not blooming, coming back this way, and went through and the dog came with us and I continued on, um, not, not wanting.
[00:26:13] To say anything to Edward on to tea. Anyway, I then found a friend who was a priest in Westminster Aey and said, I've seen a ghost. And um, perhaps this is the chance to bless. Hi Claire. 'cause it's only shortly after Jordan and I had taken over. Right after his father had sadly died and perhaps wished this ghost away.
[00:26:35] Right? And he was called Father Peter, and he's an Anglican monk and he said That'd be absolutely fine. So he came down and um, uh, we blessed the house, which was wonderful. Blessed where people came in. Blessed where people might eat in the dining room, right? So. Peaceful morning. We blessed a couple of bedrooms just as a token.
[00:26:55] 'cause otherwise this is a gentle way of getting rid of ghosts. Yes. And then we went [00:27:00] downstairs to where I'd seen the ghost. Yeah. And he'd said to me, please, can you find out who you think you saw and what the story was? Yeah. And I'd found out from an archivist that apparently. Um, a previous Countess baby had sadly died probably of something like a cot death, but the nursery mate who should have been sitting by the cot was not there.
[00:27:21] Right. And she'd been having an affair with the footman. Right. And there was a terrible uproar and terrible grief when the baby died. Yeah. Um, and I don't think anyone was blamed, but everybody felt awful about it. And the footman sadly, um, lay down and committed suicide. He cut his throat, oh gosh. Over a great in the cellars, not far from where I saw him.
[00:27:46] And I think he got up. While he was around. So you think you saw him And he was following me, a new young Countess with a baby following me longer. So it was just trying to wish him on his [00:28:00] way and saying, there is no blame. You can go now. So it's though, anyway, the, the, the father Peter said, um, if I, I wasn't, if he'd, if I didn't feel he'd gone, he could come back with a couple of bishops or something, we'd have another go bring in, bring in, bring in the artillery.
[00:28:17] He could bring in reinforcements, I think is what he said. So bring in reinforces. All right, so what happened? So that was very kind of him, but, but I think the chap is. Is much better and is less there. I mean, sometimes he is there and Oh, so you don't think he's gone? Not completely. And I think John, our council manager, sort of says sometimes, um, he was there and he's, there's definitely someone standing just beyond where he locks up in it.
[00:28:45] So other people have seen this? Oh yes. But just the shape and um, and. Um, I went along with a couple of my Labradors 'cause I was going to go and shut up a door there. Right. And they decided to turn, tail and run. [00:29:00] So, um, I found I could shut the door another time. So that was that. But you're not, you don't see that trouble by this.
[00:29:05] It's in your home down in the basement, admittedly, but it doesn't seem bothered. Well, I think I was trying to find other roots and if I'm feeling bothered, but, you know, I saw another ghost upstairs recently. Well, he stopped upstairs. I didn't see in, I heard him and, um, and there was another time. What was he doing?
[00:29:22] Well, he walks up and down a corridor.
[00:29:27] You know, I haven't heard any musical in musical ghosts. So that is positive actually. Perhaps that'd be quite better. Do you know the funny thing who just go walking around again? Do this one. Yes. But it is all part of the, so what do you, you as you as a chartered accountant, what would you attribute this to?
[00:29:44] I mean, I mean, well, ghosts, yeah. I mean, what's the rational explanation for this? Or is, is there not one mean? I don't think I worry about it be people listening think, I don't believe any of this, but I'm sort of half, that's completely fine and I don't mind talking, but I'm sort of half and half, I'm not quite sure, but I want, I want what?
[00:29:58] How do you interpret this? [00:30:00] I definitely saw someone and I've definitely heard someone, and I'm not the only one. Yeah. So I've written a chapter about various stories in your book. In my book, sorry. And people can read all d the details. Yeah. And, and, and quite a few different ghost stories that other people have seen.
[00:30:15] So I suppose together it forms quite an interesting picture and it seems to me, and it's, my husband doesn't see ghosts, Jordy hasn't seen a ghost, right. On the other hand. He tends to do his own thing and not walk along lots of different corridors late at night. It wasn't him walking around. It's not, no.
[00:30:35] So he beats his own path, which is, you know, heading up to bed rather than going in search. But I'm not necessarily sure I'm going in search of them, but I think there are other strong presences or emotions, or there's another example which perhaps explains it more clearly that. Um, there was a, a relative of Jordy's who died of na, completely [00:31:00] natural causes.
[00:31:00] One of the bedrooms upstairs and his mother was, uh, it was, it was a grownup. Son was sitting on the foot of the bed, um, when her son sadly died. Um, um, and. Sometimes if you go into the bedroom, there is the imprint of someone sitting on the end of a bed. And if someone sleeps in that bedroom, I sometimes ask at breakfast, did, did you sleep well, to see what they say.
[00:31:27] And I even say, well, I woke up and saw someone sitting at the end of the bed and you know, someone has felt the presence of someone sitting on their feet. It's not necessarily completely bad. There's, there was clearly this moment in time which was immensely strong and intensely emotional, and some of that appears to be still there, right?
[00:31:49] So that's perhaps an easy example and you know those moments in time, which are intense. Curiously enough in Downton Abbey. Um, sadly, lady Sybil [00:32:00] died in the third Yes. Series of Downton Abbey in Portico bedroom at the front of the castle, and Elizabeth McGovern, um, did an amazing job. The, this was the flu, wasn't it?
[00:32:10] No. Um, it wasn't the flu ever. She died in childbirth. Oh, in childhood. And her mother, uh, acted by Elizabeth McGovern. It was the most intensely moving. Scene in, in fact, the good news was that, um, the actress had a part, another film with Russell Crowe, so she'd wanted to leave Downton, so this Oh, I see. So they had to, scene, sort, had to be written out.
[00:32:30] Was was where she left it. But it was a very, very strongly intense emotional scene. I think for everybody watching it, they would've been very, very moved. So it's those moments in time, Portico, bedroom, the real bedroom. It feels absolutely fine because it wasn't real. Right. But um, again, it's this laying of one scene against another just to try to understand why perhaps people get a bit stuck there.
[00:32:57] Perhaps. Perhaps they like it. Perhaps they liked it [00:33:00] in that bedroom. Yeah. You mentioned, you mentioned your husband's ancestor, Lord Carnarvon, who died in Egypt. I mean, there is a story around that as well, isn't there? Tu ka moon. There is same chapter, chapter 11, but I'm joking. So it's all in the same chapter.
[00:33:15] Can we have a little bit of No, that's where I stard actually, because Right. Um, when, so what's the story there? 'cause that's very interesting. So when the fifth El died in Cairo on the, um, 6th of April, 1923. It was about two or three in the morning I think, and his wife Mina. Had flown out amazingly to be by his side, and she's tried to nurse and save her husband's life.
[00:33:38] She had been a nurse during World War I and saved the lives of so many fathers and sons and husbands of other women. But she couldn't save her own husband's life, and at the moment he died, the lights in Cairo went out. So that's where I begin because they, well, the whole city, of course, the whole city went out, right.
[00:33:58] And, [00:34:00] um. There's, there's obviously it begins, therefore with curses and ghosts, but what's slightly strange is that back at Highclere at about midnight, um, lavs little dog Susie, who normally slept in his bedroom with him on his bed, was sleeping in his housekeeper's room. And, um, at midnight, Susie stood up in her little bed, turned around, howled, and died.
[00:34:27] So she's, I think, buried with Lord Carvan in his grave right on the top of Beacon Hill. Right. So, do you know, I don't think we understand everything. In fact, the more I go on, I think we understand less and less so I, I think I'm always cautious and very respect. What did he die of? Well the dog or the man, the man what was the man was ailing obviously.
[00:34:48] 'cause his wife went to be with him. Yes. No, he'd cut his cheek with a, um, he'd cut a moss nick, a mosquito bike that was on his left cheek with a razor when he was, um, [00:35:00] sailing from a Luxor Aswan on the Lon Aya for four days just to take a break from the stress and strain of dealing with the ramifications and legacy of.
[00:35:10] Finding Toothing carbon and he nicked it, but he didn't put any iodine on it. So it became infected. He came back to Luxor and he'd maybe got a bit of septicemia. I'm not quite sure. He was always, um, he had weak lungs. Because he'd had so many car accidents, right? Because he was one of the earliest car drivers and he had a terrible car accident.
[00:35:32] And actually, um, I think it was 1909 and he nearly died, so he had damaged lungs and jaws and sort of damaged his knee really badly. So he, he was quite a spare thin man who, despite all his, um, physical challenges of, of health, had nevertheless continued on and never let it be an excuse, resilience all the way and never give up.
[00:35:55] But anyway, he then went back to Cairo to see more doctors and then [00:36:00] the, then his daughter, Evelyn, who was there with him, had raided her mother, telegraphed her mother saying, please come, you know? Right PA's. Not at all. Well. She made it out to his bedside. So was it pneumonia? Was it septicemia? The extraordinary thing is that tooting K'S gold mask, which he had not at that point seen, was one of the last things to be uncovered.
[00:36:21] Post His death by Howard Carter has been really well analyzed and it's of two equal, um, sheets of gold. The only point it's slightly thinner is here on the left cheek, which is more or less where l Aman was bitten by a mosquito. And one of the reasons Tu Carmen perhaps died was because of mosquitoes and malaria.
[00:36:44] And the other thing was that tooting carbon's left knee and leg was damaged probably by a chariot fall from a chariot driven by horses. And it was the same leg and same knee, which LA and oven had died. So I think overall, uh, be careful. [00:37:00] Well, a lot of interesting points there. So, because the, the, obviously the mask of toot and carbon is.
[00:37:07] I mean, we can all see it. I mean, it's so famous. It's iconic, isn't it? Absolutely. And amazing. And so I didn't know he never saw it. But also that point that just in that little place, the cheek. There's a little fault 'cause they that And it's 'cause it's sort of faultless. It's almost deliberate, isn't it?
[00:37:24] It it is an extraordinary piece of art. And you know, Lord Carnarvon loved both the modern Egypt in which he worked and he worked out in Egypt for some 16 years as well as ancient Egypt. Yes. And the works of art that he was finding or acquiring and buying from Egyptian dealers. At the time. So, um, yes. He, so all these treasures are now in the new museum that they've just recently.
[00:37:48] Are they all, well, the two St. Kamen treasures are all in the new museum. Yeah. And it looks entirely beautiful and I would love to go and visit him. Yeah, I've heard it's incredible. It's just open recently, so it has, I think that's [00:38:00] another place I'd like to go to. Should we go together? Let's go to, let's go to Egypt.
[00:38:04] I, I'd love to do that. So let's go back to the, your business today, just to sort of, what, what would you like to do next? Because. I'm just intrigued. How do you take it into the next chapter? What, what, what ideas do you have? Well, I think there's various parts of it. We are, we've got some properties, rental business, which is very challenging.
[00:38:23] Again, 'cause the new rental laws coming in. Um, not that I think we've been doing anything badly, but it now means that it's very hard if you want to rewire, reroof a property, you can't ask anyone to leave. Um, so the rental act for us is pretty difficult. So that's one part of our business. We are a farm.
[00:38:43] We are a small forestry business. We have the heritage business. We have, um, we grow oats for the horse trains of the world. And we have a small breed horse breeding business, which, you know, tries to least break even. [00:39:00] Uh, but the at the heart of these are race horses. Race horses, yes. And at the heart of it, it's tour corporate business.
[00:39:05] A few weddings hosp. It's hospitality at the heart of it. But a house like Heley was about making people feel welcome, saying hello. You are very welcome. That I really like, whether it's a corporate, whether it's someone who's going to get married, or whether it's a visitor coming on a guided or special tour, I then create special events around it from the magic of the movies.
[00:39:29] I work with, I've got various partners I collaborate with Viking Cruises, our big partners, Belmond, various big and famous names I can't disclose 'cause of NDAs. Filming's not necessarily done. We've already got another film trying to fit some days in in 2026, so that's a legal contract I'm working on. I'm developing the friends business the whole time.
[00:39:54] We've developed high clear Castle Gin, which is probably our biggest play. Gin. [00:40:00] G-I-N-G-I-N, not G-Y-M-G-I-N. No. Our gym is called Walking and Staircases. Right. But high Clear Castle Gin. So that is a British made business. We are now in 30 different states in America. We've just got into the, through the Canadian Liquor Board, which has taken five years.
[00:40:21] To get into Canada. We've got, um, we've got, I think we're selling in Northern Italy and Milan in Poland. Obviously in this country where it's quite a, um, where there's a lot of other gins. Um, we have been, we are the only gin to have been awarded a hundred out of a hundred. By the AM American Spirit Sport.
[00:40:41] We've got over 250 pre, uh, platinum and gold award points for being one of the best gins in the world. So that is a series business we're developing. We're based in America. The gin is made here. Gin is bottled in England. It's an extraordinary bottle. So I'm really proud of that endeavor. [00:41:00] We've just taken on a new CEO from, um, who was.
[00:41:04] Um, with Penika. So I'm really happy to have someone with much more substance. We're a very small business and um, where can you get that gin if you want to buy it? Um, on Amazon is the simplest place to get gin, actually. Highli Castle Gin, we sell it from our shop and we sell matters of cocktails as well.
[00:41:23] When people come and visit, we go a cocktail bar and jazz music and stuff, so it is quite fun. But, so that is quite interesting. We started a huge website in America. Um, during COVID and then during COVID, 'cause we've just launched it when COVID began, which is a disaster 'cause you're gonna buy your favorite old favorite gins if you drink it on favorite brands, right?
[00:41:47] So our American partners, um. Then said, um, um, right, we're gonna have to do something extraordinary. So we started a virtual cocktail party on Facebook and Instagram every other [00:42:00] Friday at 9:00 PM High clear time. George and I did not know what we were doing. Our phones were the wrong way up. It was completely chaotic, but everybody thought it was Meta's fault.
[00:42:10] So fine. We then became much more proficient at it. We involved the dogs. I learned about. Cocktails where they came from could make a hanky panky. I chose the names I liked 'cause I had a story hotel. And then by June we were in People Magazine because we created the largest virtual cocktail party of some 80,000.