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This week on all about business, James Reed is joined by Sarah Woodhouse, Co-owner and Director at Ambitious PR. With over 25 years of experience in strategic communications, Sarah helps high-growth businesses manage their public image and tell their story with transparency.
In this episode, Sarah offers practical lessons on how to communicate with purpose, prepare for unexpected crises, and tailor your message to connect with the audiences that matter most. She discusses the critical differences between marketing and strategic communications, the importance of a founder's personal brand, and how to avoid the "bear traps" of controversy.
Sarah also provides insight into crisis management, drawing on real-world examples to demonstrate how to take back control of the narrative. She also explores the impact of AI on how businesses are found and evaluated online, and what entrepreneurs can do to adapt.
Check out Ambitious PR’s website: https://www.ambitiouspr.co.uk/
Follow Ambitious PR on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ambitiouspr/
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
Sarah Woodhouse Audio
[00:00:00] Sarah: Mics are rolling. Rolling. I'll probably just ask where should I look? Am I just looking towards you? Yeah, you're
[00:00:06] James: talking to me then. Yeah.
[00:00:07] Sarah: Okay.
[00:00:07] James: So I'll probably just ask you what is, what is ambitious at the, as the opening question, so,
[00:00:12] Sarah: okay. Sure.
[00:00:13] James: Should be a home run hope.
[00:00:14] Sarah: Hopefully I can remember. We'll go to follow up.
[00:00:19] James: Yeah. Alright. We're good.
[00:00:24] Sarah: Everything is rolling. All about business with Sarah. Take one.
[00:00:32] James: Well today on all about business, I'm really delighted to welcome Sarah Woodhouse, um, who is the co-owner and director. Of a strategic communications agency called Ambitious, and Sarah's come from Bristol today to talk to me, which, um, I'm very grateful to her for. And, um, she's been involved with this agency for, well since 2012 and has worked also prior to that in communications in Hong Kong.
[00:00:59] James: So you've got 25 years of communications experience, I believe Sarah. So I'd like to begin by just saying thank you for coming and asking you what is ambitious? What do you do,
[00:01:11] Sarah: what do I do? That's a really good question. So, um, ambitious is a strategic communications agency. We lean very much into sort of public relations and content and social media, and our objective is around helping companies, um, achieve their goals, whatever they might be.
[00:01:27] Sarah: So clients come to us because they want to repair a reputation, build a reputation, create perception, change or support their sort of sales and marketing process.
[00:01:38] James: So there's masses in there. Sarah, I want to sort of delve into further, but let's start with those words, strategic communications. I mean, what makes some communications more strategic than others, I suppose, and what's the difference between communications?
[00:01:53] James: And marketing.
[00:01:55] Sarah: Okay, great. That's a really great question. So, if we talk about, I guess, marketing first, um, marketing is normally what you do to reach your end consumer. So it will be about how you support the sort of sales process, how you reach that consumer to elicit an action, which is normally a sale.
[00:02:14] Sarah: Um, but certainly when it comes to communications and public relations, that's a much broader job to be done. So public relations is often involving different audiences. So you embark on communications because you want to, uh, reach a regulator, a policy maker, an investor, an employee, a potential employee, lots of different audiences around your business.
[00:02:38] Sarah: And today, you know, uh, trust is so important. Um, and in order to sort of do business, you, you need to make sure that all those audiences are, are taken care of and that you are communicating with all of them.
[00:02:49] James: So what you're saying, I, I think listening to you is that it goes well beyond your customers or potential customers here.
[00:02:55] James: Absolutely. There are all sorts of other stakeholders or people who could have an influence on your future success.
[00:03:00] Sarah: That's absolutely right. I mean, it definitely involves customers as well, and you can have PR and communications campaigns that just focus on your customer. Um, but often PR is used to help reach those audiences to help build relationships with lots of different stakeholders that are involved in a company's success.
[00:03:19] James: So I remember being told years ago, you know, PRS good because if you can get in the paper through pr, you don't have to pay for an ad.
[00:03:25] Sarah: It sounds like,
[00:03:26] James: it sounds like it's moved on a bit, but that's still the essence of it. Is it?
[00:03:30] Sarah: Yeah, it's definitely, you've got so many in the toolbox.
[00:03:32] James: You've got, you've got so many more channels now though.
[00:03:35] Sarah: That's right. So we live in a, a world where we are bombarded by different channels vying for our attention. And so, uh, public relations has definitely moved beyond just about being, about securing media coverage. Um, securing media coverage is definitely. Still very much important part of the toolbox of what PR people have up their sleeve, but it's also about that multichannel world we live in.
[00:03:59] Sarah: So it may be about building a presence on YouTube, having influence on TikTok, creating a really big following on LinkedIn, could be about then the networks that you work through, the partnerships that you build. It's much more around looking at the whole ecosystem and the different touch points that your business can come across, and then how you build your influence in those.
[00:04:21] James: So for a lot of entrepreneurs starting out building a business, they're not gonna have a big budget. No. Necessarily. They've got to think about how to build a brand, you know how to get awareness up and maybe do some communications. Where would you suggest. Someone in that situation might start,
[00:04:40] Sarah: I'd start small.
[00:04:41] Sarah: I wouldn't try to tackle everything at once. Um, I would really think about where your core audience is and what you're trying to achieve. So if you are a startup and your, you know, biggest objective is around securing investment, you know, think about the channels that are gonna reach those investors to start with.
[00:04:58] Sarah: So that might naturally lead you somewhere like LinkedIn and about building your following on LinkedIn, looking at what you are, you know, communicating what you're doing, how it differs from your competitors, how it's gonna change the world and focus on that channel. But actually, if you are, um, objective is around securing, I guess, permission to do something.
[00:05:18] Sarah: So if you're in financial services, you may need to reach a regulator or you may need to, um, covet, um, opinion sort of policy level, uh, with government then. You know, you, you find ways to get into those circles. So don't try to do everything, don't try to communicate with everyone. Really pick on those channels that are gonna move your business forward, and then you can always layer on and build in other communication plans as you go.
[00:05:43] James: So really prioritize, but you can do that with us. Quite a modest budget then.
[00:05:47] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess it's, it's also about the team and the size of team that you've got. So when you first start out, you may have no one in a communications or marketing role. It might be you as a sole founder, or it might be you and a, and a few, I guess, bright sparks that you've employed to help you along the way.
[00:06:04] Sarah: So, um, you, you need to, you know, you need to pick something and then put all your attention, your focus on that rather than trying to. Build following or build influence across all channels to start with. You can always come back to that later. And you can always pick that up as your priorities change, which they do as you build a business.
[00:06:23] James: I was thinking when you were saying that, how are you gonna go on LinkedIn and get someone to invest in your business? And then I suddenly realized I actually did invest in someone's business because the LinkedIn and this chap, he, he emailed or messaged me on LinkedIn, made some comment about a post I'd made of my red socks or something, which I was, and, and he made me laugh and he said, you might be interested in an idea.
[00:06:42] James: And he, he, it worked in a related sector and we did invest in his business and it did really well. And so, you know, that does work. But what I was thinking when you were saying that is you need to be proactive as well. He, he came out towards us and said, you know, this might be of interest to you. Yeah. As well as just posting stuff, I
[00:07:01] Sarah: think.
[00:07:01] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, when we talk about strategic communications, and you asked what makes. Communication, strategic. It is about being intentional with what you are doing and how you're building your communications on, say, LinkedIn as a platform. So it's not just about posting what you think about in that given moment, it's about laying down a plan, thinking about your audience and all the aspects that they may be interested in.
[00:07:25] Sarah: So, for instance, if you were a founder going into a, a building, a new category, you may want to look at, you know, why you're doing that, what that's all about, how it's going to grow, um, the trends that are coming out, and not trying to get all of that into one post. You know, really thinking about what you post over time, but then also how you engage with your community, how you build your following, how you ask people within your network to connect you to others.
[00:07:53] Sarah: Um, how you look at groups that sit with on LinkedIn and your influence within those, um, and, and, and, and really look at it in the round and, and invest time in, in that.
[00:08:03] James: So that is an investment in time and effort. And, and as you say, you have to be intentional. What are the sort of biggest reputation mistakes that, um, you see entrepreneurs making early on?
[00:08:13] James: What, what sort of warnings would you share with us?
[00:08:18] Sarah: I think when you're an entrepreneur and you're scaling a business, um, things can happen quite quickly, can't they? Uh, often you're putting in a lot of effort and it's going slow for a while, and then all of a sudden momentum kicks in and sales pick up and all of, and you're in a different stratosphere.
[00:08:33] Sarah: But often then the, the size of the team around you doesn't keep track with that progress. And so whereas you may have had, say, one person looking after everything to do with sort of marketing communication, suddenly you need. A diverse range of skill sets, but where you've got lots of investment priorities to make in a new business, perhaps you haven't kept track of what you need in that team and you're not putting the right resource in place.
[00:08:59] Sarah: So as businesses scale, you know, making sure that you are keeping track of the budget that you're spending on marketing to reflect where you are now as opposed to where you were, is really important because you've got to just keep investing in order to see that return investing. Yeah, I
[00:09:14] James: can imagine why you might be encouraging people like me to keep investing, which is fair enough.
[00:09:19] James: But I'm thinking about the mistakes. I mean, I suppose not investing is, is one
[00:09:23] Sarah: mistake you
[00:09:23] James: are saying, but there are others surely that there, I mean, it feels like there are lots of bear traps out there.
[00:09:30] Sarah: Yeah. In
[00:09:30] James: the world of communications, to me, things that can go wrong, I, I just wanted you to maybe surface one or two for us to think about and be aware of.
[00:09:38] Sarah: No, absolutely. So I guess a lot of founders have their own personal brands, um, and. Part of the joy, I guess, when you're building a business is being able to share your own personal stories, being able to use your own personal brand as a real leverage to building your business. Um, but as you scale and as you draw more attention to yourself, um, your own views can then either be helpful to your business or counterproductive to that growth and success.
[00:10:09] Sarah: And so
[00:10:11] James: what you mean your own views beyond business?
[00:10:13] Sarah: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Views about your political views, your views on all aspects of society, your views on football, even in or, or, or, or anything else. Yes. You know, they can be seen as being controversial, so there's always that really fine line to tread between being.
[00:10:31] Sarah: Being a high profile person, using your own personality and your beliefs to build your business, um, and embracing sort of the values that you stand for, but at the same time, not walking into bear traps. That could be counterproductive to the success that you're building
[00:10:49] James: because some people, some people, you know, there's this engage and enrage or enrage and engage sort of, I, I've heard this a number of times where people do that to get sort of attention online.
[00:10:59] James: But you are saying that's not a long-term strategy really.
[00:11:02] Sarah: It's not a long-term strategy. No. And, um, I guess the, the risk there is what you say in the early days where you may have a very core following. People that really buy into what you're doing, you know, that can come back to haunt you later. So if you're controversial in your early days because you see that, that's a way to get attention, that's a way to, um, score points maybe with people that are really championing what you stand for later as you become more mainstream, as you open up.
[00:11:28] Sarah: To more custom bases and attract more people, then that can come back to get you. 'cause nothing ever goes away, does it?
[00:11:36] James: No, but I mean, but it could be a Marmite strategy. It could be a good strategy. Couldn't it be, I mean, it might be that, you know, you've got a big enough audience that likes what you're doing.
[00:11:43] James: It could be, you don't really care about the others that don't.
[00:11:46] Sarah: It could be, and it depends very much on the sector that you're in. As to whether that works or not. Yeah. Does so which sectors
[00:11:51] James: might that be sort of Okay. In,
[00:11:53] Sarah: so I think, I guess, I guess in youth culture, uh, where you are, youth culture. Yeah.
[00:11:57] Sarah: Where you are really focused on a, a movement. You're a
[00:11:59] James: moderate rocker in the old days, but what is it now? I controversially switch from one to the other, which is
[00:12:06] Sarah: shocking.
[00:12:06] James: It's like changing your football club, which is also a minefield. Yeah.
[00:12:10] Sarah: Um, and then of course, I guess, you know, food and drink as well.
[00:12:13] Sarah: We've seen lots of controversy, haven't we, in those sort of sectors, um, especially within the beer industry. Right. There's lots of, uh, of, of quite high profile people that have had lots to say on subject matters that haven't necessarily landed in the beer industry. Yeah. So, um, but then if you are in financial services or you are in, um, the, the legal industry, then you've, you've probably got to tread a different path, haven't you?
[00:12:38] Sarah: Because you, I don't
[00:12:38] James: know, I'm not in those industries, but you, that would be your advice to me about what.
[00:12:42] Sarah: Yeah, I think you, you obviously, if you are a new entrant into a market, you wanna shake that market up. You want to, well,
[00:12:48] James: you need to get attention, do things differently. Absolutely.
[00:12:51] Sarah: But you, you've gotta make sure that you stick to your values.
[00:12:54] Sarah: You've gotta make sure that what you're saying is helpful to your business isn't gonna come back to get you later.
[00:13:00] James: So that's interesting you say stick to your values. Yeah. So you, you would advise your clients to start there, really? Would you?
[00:13:05] Sarah: Yeah, definitely. I think really articulating what you stand for as a person and, and where those are reflected in your business and then using your business to show examples of that is really powerful.
[00:13:16] Sarah: Um, and then that also provides a bit of guidance in terms of what conversations you get involved in, what causes you support. Uh, what you champion outside of your business. You know, if you've, if you've got a really clear idea on what those values are, that can really help to ensure that you build a bit of a framework for yourself without making that sound too sort of jargony.
[00:13:37] Sarah: But if you've got an idea of what you stand for as a person, then that will help you to shape up conversations that you are prepared to get involved in, and others that you probably should just stay away from or stay in your lane about. That's
[00:13:50] James: a good, a good challenge for anybody. I'm just thinking of what do I stand for?
[00:13:53] James: Yeah, it's a good, a good question to ask oneself, ab and you, you would say that's a good starting point for, that's a
[00:13:58] Sarah: really good starting point, and I think especially for founder led businesses, um, when you're building a business, you, a lot of yourself will be in that business. A lot of you will.
[00:14:09] Sarah: Probably recognized a problem in an industry and your business will be about solving that issue. So it would be impossible to, at the beginning, to really sort of delineate yourself from the business because you are the business. Uh, and then as it builds other people sort of input to that, don't they?
[00:14:24] Sarah: And they help to shape it as well. Um, but really those core values, um, especially if you're looking for a legacy, if you're looking to then, you know, pass that business on to your, to your family, to to, to, to others that may have started the business with you, you know, coming, always coming back to those core values can really provide a good solid framework from which to think about, you know, your, your behavior as a business.
[00:14:50] James: So you, you talked about founder led businesses, I suppose all businesses in the early days of founder led, aren't they? They, that's right. We start with somebody doing something that do, um. Is it your view that the, that the founder really needs to take a lead then in these strategic communications, that that needs to be their voice to begin with?
[00:15:06] Sarah: I think in recent years, that has definitely become a huge expectation of businesses.
[00:15:11] James: In recent years. In recent years. And why is that? What's going on?
[00:15:14] Sarah: That's about trust, uh, and the world that we live in. Um, companies can no longer be sort of faceless entities. Um, people want to know who's behind the business.
[00:15:25] Sarah: Um, we have so many channels available to us to find out information, and those are constantly fed either by ourselves if we've. Embarking on sort of proactive communications or by others if we're just reacting to what people say about us in the market. So if you, um, if you have the opportunity to sort of shape your communications by using your own profile, um, if you're a bigger company using the profile of those executives that work for you, you know, that that can really help you to stand out in the market and that can help tell the, your story.
[00:15:58] Sarah: Um, and people love stories as well, and those are so powerful. Uh, and people have stories. And, and if you are just a brand that's sort of communicating without that, that type of kind of personal touch that you know, that that's, that's difficult to sometimes get the cut through. You've then got to create the stories.
[00:16:15] James: So I like the, the companies are no longer faceless organizations, so every company needs a face or two.
[00:16:22] Sarah: Well, is
[00:16:22] James: that what you're saying? I mean, not
[00:16:23] Sarah: every company, because I guess there's lots of examples out there of huge companies, utilities,
[00:16:28] James: I'm thinking
[00:16:28] Sarah: utilities or, but they don't, they
[00:16:30] James: get a bad, they get a bad,
[00:16:31] Sarah: yeah.
[00:16:32] Sarah: Or big brand, right? Don't they? Yeah, they do get a bad rap. But big brands where, you know, perhaps the turnover of CEOs is every few years. That's difficult to then build that personal brand aspect and there's always the risk that, that,
[00:16:43] James: yeah, the tenure of the CEOs. Yeah. Not as long as the life of the business in that situation.
[00:16:48] James: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:49] Sarah: I think especially when you consider the role of employee engagement and employee communications within brand building, then the expectation is that your leadership is not invisible. People want to know who leads the business. They want to know who they work for. They want to know what they stand for.
[00:17:07] Sarah: So. EE even if you are not projecting that externally, um, into the world, that's really important for your, for your staff and for your team. So,
[00:17:16] James: so when you are describing that, are, are there some business leaders that are popping up in your mind, do you think are good examples of that, that you could share?
[00:17:24] Sarah: Um, yeah, I mean the businesses that we work for, a lot of those are sort of scaling businesses. I mean, there's lots of, I guess, obvious examples out there. People like the Richard Bransons of the world who were, I, I think were pioneers in personal brand and using, I think he was
[00:17:40] James: kind of the first almost, I wouldn't say
[00:17:41] Sarah: he was probably the first.
[00:17:42] Sarah: Yeah. I'm trying to think, Jack, I suppose people like Henry Ford and people like that may have Henry Ford. Yeah. May have come before, but did
[00:17:48] James: they think about personal brands? Do you think Henry Ford was thinking about that or was he just thinking about making a good car?
[00:17:54] Sarah: I think he probably stood for a whole generation of, um, I guess.
[00:17:59] Sarah: Manufacturing an industry that didn't exist before he came. So he, he was a category leader, wasn't he in that sort of automotive industry? Probably a pioneer. Pioneer, yeah. And, uh, uh, as was Richard Branson, an icon of ways. Yeah. I guess like 1940s, fifties America. Yeah. Um, and now sort of racking my brain to really get examples from this day and age.
[00:18:21] Sarah: Well, maybe there
[00:18:22] James: aren't many that might be the challenge. No, I think there are, for all of us in business, we've gotta step up and do better.
[00:18:26] Sarah: No, I think there are so many now. I think that's so
[00:18:28] James: many. You'd say it's the opposite.
[00:18:29] Sarah: Yeah. I think there are a lot, a lot. And I, and I think that people do look to those individuals to work out whether they wanna work for that business or do business with that business.
[00:18:40] Sarah: Um, and, and, and we can pull out lots of sort of, I guess, blue chip businesses, but I think those sorts of strategies of building a personal brand is really key in that scaling business phase and in that startup phase where. Um, where, where that's just an opportunity to get ahead and to use that story. So when you think about building a
[00:19:02] James: personal brand, I mean, is there some sort of.
[00:19:07] James: List of types of personal brand. I mean, reckon you be this type. Is it like picking a color?
[00:19:12] Sarah: I mean
[00:19:12] James: what, I mean how do you approach it? What, what, what? I mean, how do you begin with a personal brand? 'cause we are all somebody. Yeah, we all have a name. Definitely. We all come from somewhere.
[00:19:21] Sarah: Absolutely. So,
[00:19:22] James: so, but what else is required here?
[00:19:25] Sarah: So first of all, it's the sort of strategic aspect of it, which is again, what we said coming back to the values. What do you stand for? Really articulating those and getting those down on paper so you can use those to judge everything you do. By secondly, it's about the messages that you wanna get across.
[00:19:42] Sarah: So, um, it's not enough just to. Think about broadcasting and getting out there and ha and, and saying things on different channels. You need to, to really think about what it is that you want to say and, and, and have those sort of articulated. Thirdly, it's looking at the channels on, on which you can be most effective.
[00:20:01] Sarah: Being quite single-minded about those. Picking two, three, whatever your time and budget allows for to invest in those. And then fourth, it's looking about how you're gonna amplify what you're doing, what is gonna give you that sense of credibility so that people see you. Um, as a, as a recognizable personal brand.
[00:20:20] Sarah: So that might be, are there awards that you should be going for? Are there speaker opportunities where you should be having something to say? Um, are there networks where you could be investing in those networks that are gonna move the industry on?
[00:20:34] James: This sounds like a full-time job though.
[00:20:39] James: Run a business or sell a product or whatever, you know, it's a big deal. Always. I
[00:20:44] Sarah: disagree actually. You disagree? Good. I disagree. Why?
[00:20:46] James: Why? Because
[00:20:47] Sarah: I think a lot of business leaders do all this stuff naturally anyway. What they don't do is package it up and use their channels to replay it. I mean, most business leaders when they're building a business will be already thinking about, oh gosh, the talent pool of the future.
[00:21:04] Sarah: Um, so they haven't
[00:21:05] James: found their media really, but they're sort of doing it everywhere.
[00:21:07] Sarah: Yeah, they're doing lots of great stuff, but what they're not not doing is articulating that back through their channels. So. Uh, half of it'll be about taking stock, you know, what am I actually doing to build this business that will be of interest to others, and how can I showcase that through my own channels?
[00:21:22] Sarah: And so taking people on a journey with you, um, to show them how you're building your business or, or what it takes or, uh, you know, that's all really interesting content as well. Um, you know,
[00:21:35] James: which, I mean, what about this word authenticity? It comes up a lot. Um. You know, so you've got a LinkedIn page, lots of people following it.
[00:21:44] James: Should you get your assistant to post on it or should you do it yourself?
[00:21:48] Sarah: I think you should do it yourself.
[00:21:50] James: Yeah, I agree. So I do mine, but it, it is time consuming.
[00:21:55] Sarah: I th it doesn't mean that others can't guide you. So we talked about a content strategy and having sort of key pillars of things that you might talk about.
[00:22:04] Sarah: Other, other people can guide you with that. Communications experts or, well, so here,
[00:22:09] James: here's a sort of menu of things you should be thinking of doing over the next few periods. Yeah, absolutely. And some ideas and that sort of thing. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. That so you can get input and help.
[00:22:17] Sarah: Yeah. And you can use other assets that you're creating in other areas of marketing.
[00:22:20] Sarah: Yeah. To then play back on your own personal channels. So if you appear in an article in the press, you know, replay that through LinkedIn or if you, if part of your business has commissioned some research, you know, replay that, a speaker platform that you are talking at. Yeah. So
[00:22:35] James: make sure you're using everything you are,
[00:22:37] Sarah: using everything you've got and start there.
[00:22:39] Sarah: Don't, don't look to create stuff from the outset. Look at what you're already doing. Um, that's probably the most cost effective and time effective way, and I'm sure you'll
[00:22:48] James: be doing stuff so you start,
[00:22:49] Sarah: you'll be doing it. I mean, I've never met a founder that isn't passionate about. What they're doing. And, and, and if they're passionate about what they're doing, they're normally passionate about the industry that they're in, and they probably care deeply about the staff that they're growing, um, and all of that There, there'll be aspects of that that they can tell those stories about.
[00:23:09] Sarah: So you know why they've taken on or invest in in apprenticeship. Yeah.
[00:23:12] James: So what's interesting to me listening to this is from when I started in my career, there was no, there was no sort of suggestion that you should be sharing all that stuff publicly about, you know, how you do your bus, you know, how you run your company.
[00:23:25] James: And now you're saying it's, it's a good thing to do that and to do it all through these different channels.
[00:23:30] Sarah: Yes. Yeah.
[00:23:31] James: Because why, why?
[00:23:32] Sarah: Because I think people are looking for new ideas, and I think that from a. The, I guess the buzzword over the last few years has been thought leadership. Yeah. But I think we're in a new era now of full, full leadership because we have thought full leadership, we have new challenges in our world, don't we?
[00:23:48] Sarah: Certainly do. Yeah. We have cost of living crisis that many employers are trying to support their employees through. We have mental health challenges that many employers feel really responsible for helping their employees to overcome. We have all sorts of sort of, I guess, ideology politically that we're trying to navigate.
[00:24:07] Sarah: And so the role of a leader now is sitting across all of these very, very challenging polarizing conversations and trying to navigate their staff and their team and their workforce through those. And that's challenging. And they, they need to, and, and by sharing perhaps their approaches or the ideas that they've got or how they've tackled certain subjects that can be really compelling to all aspects of their supply chain or their, um, stakeholders.
[00:24:38] James: I really like thoughtful leadership.
[00:24:40] Sarah: Thank
[00:24:40] James: you. Thanks for No, thanks for sharing that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna use that and think about it and, and, and all those things you've just described are sort of real and, and we're all trying to keep our show on the road, so to speak, and keep the team together and keep people focused and keep people I hope happy in their work.
[00:24:56] James: So that, that, that is a new kind of, um, leadership in many ways.
[00:25:02] Sarah: It is. It is. And I guess especially
[00:25:04] James: with digital and working remotely and all these new things that have happened really in the last decade.
[00:25:09] Sarah: Yeah. And I guess you can't just be focused on profit anymore, can you? I mean, ultimately I'm a true believer in growth.
[00:25:17] Sarah: Um, I don't think that we can have conversations about business without talking about growth, but at the same time, there is responsibility towards planet and, and to people as well. And I don't think there's ever been a time when there's been more responsibility needed to those two other things. So leadership is not.
[00:25:35] Sarah: In a vacuum. It it, it's the consideration of how profit is made in context of those other two areas. And so leaders do have to navigate their way through that. And all of that content is, is really, really interesting.
[00:25:50] James: So that's profit with purpose.
[00:25:52] Sarah: Yeah. I mean, purpose is such a overused word, isn't it? And it's, it's challenging purpose now in this sort of Trump era.
[00:26:00] Sarah: What, what do you mean? Why, uh, well, because, um, I guess a lot of companies, especially if they've got foot, both sides of, uh, the Atlantic is the Atlantic, isn't it? Or the US Yeah.
[00:26:10] James: If that's the way you're going. Yeah. Yeah. Gonna France, it's the channel.
[00:26:15] Sarah: Um, it's really challenging, isn't it? Because you know, perhaps what would've landed, yeah.
[00:26:21] Sarah: In the last administration won't land well now. And if you're running a global business, you've got to take into account perhaps what all of your audiences are thinking and feeling. So companies do need to be purposed. Well, it
[00:26:32] James: becomes very difficult. I mean, I think the company's gotta believe in its own purpose, surely
[00:26:35] Sarah: correct.
[00:26:36] Sarah: But I think that's where the values come in, isn't it? Companies got to follow its own values and what it cares about. And yeah, I mean, our
[00:26:41] James: purpose is improving lives through work. Whoever's the president of the United States or anywhere else.
[00:26:47] Sarah: Exactly. It doesn't change. Yeah.
[00:26:48] James: So, but it worries me that you think, you know, some company might have to sort of, you know, do some sort of dance to change their purpose because of what's going on politically.
[00:26:56] James: No,
[00:26:56] Sarah: it's not, it's not a dance. I think it's more about how companies come back to their sort of true values and how they're living those, um, not just throwing around words like purpose, but really focusing on that. But of course, the reality and you
[00:27:10] James: feel it's become a bit sort of
[00:27:11] Sarah: Yeah, I think overused.
[00:27:12] Sarah: Yeah. I mean, you won't see any sort of marketing comms these days without the word purpose thrown in. Right. But I think what purpose means and how companies articulate it has to reflect their own values and their own ideology.
[00:27:26] James: Yeah. So, so one of the things you do, I believe is, is help companies when they have a crisis.
[00:27:32] Sarah: Yes.
[00:27:33] James: So I, I, I've been thinking about a few. I mean, I followed business stories closely and there have been a few business stories that have given me the Heebie G piece. Um, and I think, oh, you know, what would I have done in that situation? Well, I'd have called a good communications expert and said, how can you help?
[00:27:52] James: So can I just role play a couple of these? Oh my goodness. I'm a bit
[00:27:56] Sarah: nervous about this, but Absolutely. Please go ahead.
[00:27:58] James: I think it'd be, well, one big story, um, this spring was the Heathrow Airport fire.
[00:28:06] Sarah: Oh, yes.
[00:28:06] James: And, um, you'll remember that was a fire that occurred in an electricity substation in the night.
[00:28:11] Sarah: Mm.
[00:28:12] James: And it closed Heathrow, or the decision was taken to close Heathrow. That's right. Which meant, you know, 1,200 flights were canceled. 200,000 passengers were inconvenience, to say the least. And, um, a lot of money was lost. And so one of the, one of the notable things that came out of that was that the CEO.
[00:28:34] James: Um, Thomas WBE had slept through this, um, momentous night, uh, the CEO of Heathrow. And so I am, for the purpose of this role play Thomas Holby wbe. And I've just woken up and I'm called you
[00:28:53] Sarah: Oh my Lord. Yeah.
[00:28:53] James: And, and I'm, I'm saying, Sarah, what, what should I say? What should I do? What, what's, what should I be thinking about now?
[00:29:00] James: This has happened. Help me, please.
[00:29:03] Sarah: Absolutely. Well, the best help that any PR person could have given, uh, Heath Throw at that time is the preparedness that would've gone in pre this crisis situation. Oh, thanks
[00:29:13] James: for that.
[00:29:14] Sarah: Yeah. But it's happened. No, we'll come onto that in a minute, but, okay. Ultimately, it's all about the process when it comes to crisis communications, so it's about knowing who's on call, who's responsible, how they're contactable.
[00:29:32] Sarah: What that process looks like to make sure that the right people are available in this sort of instance. And then who is gonna step in if that person, for some reason, I dunno, wife's in labor or they're in a family crisis or something is gonna take over. So that, so someone
[00:29:48] James: did take, someone did make the decision to close down.
[00:29:50] James: Yeah. It wasn't like there was no one there, but he, he obviously made the decision to switch his phone off, which is not an unreasonable, you know, we keep hearing, I've talked to many people who say, you know, shouldn't have your phone on twenty four seven and you should give, you know, it's not good for one's mental health should turn it off.
[00:30:07] James: Yeah. So, and that's what happened here.
[00:30:09] Sarah: So I guess then. If you were the PR person briefing him as you've, as, that's the scenario that you've given. Um, then I, I guess it's about being honest with him about the impact that's gonna have, which it did have, um, on the perception, um, because people were outraged that that would've led to him not being available to speak to the, to the public.
[00:30:30] Sarah: So, um, in that instance, I don't think, I think you've just got to, you've got, you can't shy away from what's happened. You can't pretend that you weren't asleep. No. You have
[00:30:40] James: to say it as it is, is what you're saying. You, you've gotta say it how
[00:30:42] Sarah: it is. You've got to lean on the fact that you've got a very capable team that, you know, there was a process in place.
[00:30:48] Sarah: Um, and that, that, that, that exec team is, is, is all sort of responsible. But I, but I think also probably an apology is, is also re required in that instance. Because ultimately when you're the chief exec, can you ever really be off? That is the question.
[00:31:05] James: Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. Well, that's a good question.
[00:31:09] James: Can you really ever be off if you're the chief exec? That's one for us to reflect on. Possibly not. And so the next one was a tragedy that happened in America, which was the assassination of Brian Thompson, the CEO of United Healthcare.
[00:31:24] Sarah: Oh, yes.
[00:31:25] James: By a young man who's been accused of this crime called Luigi Mangione.
[00:31:30] James: And, and Luigi Mangione was apprehended, you might recall. Yeah. In a McDonald's. And not long after his apprehension, 'cause someone who worked at McDonald's called the police. They recognized him and he was arrested. Not long after his apprehension. A tweet appeared on X, um, from Burger King simply said, we don't snitch.
[00:31:55] James: And then it's become apparent sometime later that this wasn't actually from Burger King, the. The tweet, we don't snitch. It was a fictitious account looking like Burger King, but it went viral. Um, and, uh, burger King got a lot of incoming comment. Some of it favorable and some of it critical, uh, criticizing the insensitivity of their communication.
[00:32:22] James: Mm-hmm. They didn't actually do it. So I'm, I'm the marketing manager at Burger King. What would you advise me to do in that situation?
[00:32:31] Sarah: I, I think that warrants a statement from the business just to say, you know, take matters like this. Although you have a reputation for humor and they've done some great work in the past, haven't they?
[00:32:40] Sarah: Where they've, uh, I guess, uh, riddled McDonald's or, um, take, taken them, taken the mickey out of McDonald's. But in this instance, I think that's a statement from the CEO just to say, you know, this is fake news. This didn't happen. We didn't put this statement out. Um, advice we support our, our colleagues. You advice at McDonald's?
[00:32:59] Sarah: Um, yeah, absolutely, because it's, there's a real gravity there in that situation. It's not, it's not one for humor advice.
[00:33:06] James: Interesting. I don't actually know what they did, so I know, I'm
[00:33:09] Sarah: trying to recall my sound. I'm
[00:33:10] James: not sure they did anything.
[00:33:11] Sarah: I don't think they did anything.
[00:33:13] James: No. So they didn't do what you just suggested.
[00:33:15] James: No, but I do
[00:33:15] Sarah: think, you know, I think that, that, that's quite a, there's, there's, I mean, are we, are someone's died, haven't they? So are, yeah. But
[00:33:20] James: are we responsible for correcting what other people are doing in our. Name nefariously. I dunno.
[00:33:29] Sarah: No, but I guess you probably want it on record somewhere that you behaved in the correct manner.
[00:33:38] Sarah: You are a good corporate citizen. At the end of the day. Um, you choose the situations you make light of. Maybe that's not one to, to make light of. It's difficult, isn't it? We live in a world where you absolutely can't control the narrative anymore. No, quite That's what it's interesting about these scenarios.
[00:33:55] Sarah: Your hands. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe billions of people could know about your crisis before you as the CEO even knows about it, especially if you've slept, slept through the night. Yeah, absolutely. I think I might've known about it before Thomas. You can't control the narrative, but you can do things. Do you remember the astronomer case recently where Gwyneth Paltrow, um, appeared in a video, um, after the event, after the, the kiss.
[00:34:18] Sarah: Right. Um, where, and
[00:34:19] James: this is the Coldplay concert.
[00:34:21] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I thought that was a brilliant way to kind of bring the narrative back to the business. What did, what
[00:34:26] James: did Gwyneth Pal do?
[00:34:27] Sarah: So astronomer hired her to appear in a video. It was very tongue in cheek. Right. Um, and all, and all it did was sort of ask questions about the company and help to sort of Correct, um, I guess bring it back to the business and what the business actually did, rather than being about the KISS and the ceo.
[00:34:42] Sarah: But
[00:34:43] James: this was a company no one had ever heard of No. Before this event? No,
[00:34:45] Sarah: absolutely.
[00:34:46] James: And, and,
[00:34:47] Sarah: and probably a business that was completely relevant to most of the people. Yeah. It was relatively
[00:34:50] James: small startup, I think. But neither the CEO nor the HR. The director is still there? I think so. No, that's,
[00:34:57] Sarah: that's right.
[00:34:57] Sarah: But I, so it was obviously
[00:34:58] James: their successors that decided to involve Gwyneth.
[00:35:01] Sarah: Yeah. I just thought it was such a good quick turnaround of an idea. Um, yeah. And you know, using that link between, um, Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin, she's his ex-wife. Um, and then the way that the video was staged was just a brilliant way to take back control of the narrative.
[00:35:17] Sarah: And as we said, as I said, it's impossible, isn't it, now, to control the narrative. But you can,
[00:35:24] James: that was sort of the story of the summer. That wasn't
[00:35:26] Sarah: it. Oh my goodness. I mean, every summer had some
[00:35:28] James: moment. It was every PRS
[00:35:29] Sarah: nightmare, wasn't it? I, I dunno, I dunno.
[00:35:32] James: I mean, it was pretty good for Coldplay.
[00:35:36] James: Everyone knows they're on tour now if they didn't before. Yeah,
[00:35:39] Sarah: that's true. Yeah. Um,
[00:35:40] James: but yeah. Yeah. So, so then the third one I'm gonna ask you, and this, this was a big story, was the, the cyber attack on Marx and Spences. Oh. Which obviously caused huge disruption. Yeah. And, and, and closed down as aspects and elements of the business.
[00:35:58] James: Um, I'm the CEO of Marks and Spencer's. What advice would you be giving me in a situation like that?
[00:36:06] Sarah: Oh, do you know what, I'd love to give advice, but do you know, I think m and s did such a great job managing this. So why did they do a good job, in your view? Because they kept communication channels really open.
[00:36:13] Sarah: They were very honest. They kept everyone up to date with what was happening. And I think if anything, what it really proved was how much this country loves Marks and Spencer's and how reliant we are on them. Um, we have an m and Marks and Spencer is just around the corner from our office. Uh, the food hall and the way that the customers were interacting with the staff, you know, feeling sorry for them because their shelves were empty, still supporting them by buying what was available.
[00:36:43] Sarah: You know, that was just an incredible. You know, incredible response. But there, from a communications point of view, I, I can't, I can't criticize them. I felt like they did a brilliant job. So you
[00:36:53] James: obviously followed that. Absolutely. Followed that as a communications really
[00:36:56] Sarah: closely. Well, I mean,
[00:36:57] James: just the sort of three key things they did that we can learn from.
[00:37:00] Sarah: Yeah. They were super quick to react and honest about what was happening. I saying, we've
[00:37:05] James: got a problem.
[00:37:05] Sarah: Yeah. They kept people up to date every step of the way. Uh, they used all of their channels to communicate what was going on. Um, and then they were as, as things started to come back online, then they were communicating what was back online and what wasn't.
[00:37:22] Sarah: Um, and they did a really good job at reassuring people that their data, what was going on with their data. 'cause obviously that was the most sensitive aspect. Um, of, of the, of the situation. So, and I, and I guess they weren't the only one that was attacked at that time. Um, no. It's probably the biggest impact on them compared to others.
[00:37:39] Sarah: But they came out of it the most favorably.
[00:37:41] James: They weren't the only one. And others, the, the, the toughest question I think they were asked and others were as well, was, well, did you pay the hackers anything to go away? And different companies gave different answers.
[00:37:56] Sarah: Yeah. Well I suppose that's all down to the cyber insurance and whether the cyber insurance will support that.
[00:38:01] James: Yeah. But it was interesting to me that different companies gave different answers.
[00:38:05] Sarah: Yeah. I think, uh, I mean this isn't a comms response I guess, but it's becoming more and more difficult for the bigger companies to pay the hackers. 'cause I, I think that's what.
[00:38:16] James: Yeah, I dunno. It was either everybody wants to do it was either, it was either no comment or no.
[00:38:19] James: Right?
[00:38:20] Sarah: Yeah. And,
[00:38:21] James: and so if it wasn't no, you wondered what no comment meant.
[00:38:24] Sarah: Well, absolutely No comment. Probably means the opposite. Well, exactly.
[00:38:27] James: So that was interesting. Yeah. And I suppose given what you were saying about being prepared, it might be good to have a, a view on whether you're gonna do anything of that sort before this happens.
[00:38:38] James: Yeah. Def I'm just thinking sort of
[00:38:40] Sarah: definitely allowed really. Yeah. No, the issues preparedness side is so important and that's where a cri a crisis starts. Well before a crisis hits. A crisis starts if you haven't prepared for it. So really thinking through what are the things that could go wrong with your business?
[00:38:56] Sarah: What are the technological things that could go wrong? What are the human, we're all human aren't we? We all make errors. But, but then,
[00:39:01] James: but then something like COVID happens, I mean. That's quite hard to prepare for, isn't it?
[00:39:06] Sarah: Yes. I will admit that that is really hard to prepare for. So there
[00:39:11] James: are things that we can prepare for things.
[00:39:13] James: Yeah. There are things that we can
[00:39:14] Sarah: definitely prepare
[00:39:15] James: for. Well, I suppose we are all in that in the same boat.
[00:39:16] Sarah: Yeah. Abso absolutely. I mean, I think there's still aspects, um, of, of COVID that you can prepare for in terms of sort of an outbreak of something, whatever that might be. Well, now we're
[00:39:26] James: more Yeah.
[00:39:27] James: That, yeah, we probably, but, but yeah.
[00:39:29] Sarah: Very hard to predict that one for sure.
[00:39:31] James: Yeah. Yeah. So I want to ask you about technology. I mean, we've just alluded to it a little bit, um, and ai, you know, everyone's talking about it, so I'm sorry to land this on. No, but it's great. How, how is AI changing how people find and evaluate businesses online?
[00:39:49] James: You know, this is part of your sort of world positioning people and businesses Yes. In a positive way, um, to their potential customers or wider stakeholders and, and what should entrepreneurs be aware of?
[00:40:01] Sarah: Yeah. Okay. So. Whereas if you needed information before you would go to Google. Now, obviously a lot of people are going to other platforms like Chat, GPT, TikTok, YouTube, all of those places are acting like search engines now and bringing you up information, um, in different sort of formats.
[00:40:21] Sarah: So in Google, um, you'll search, if you type a question, you'll get a number of different sort of search engine results come up. And we, everybody's always talked about the first page of Google, haven't they? Whereas now if you go to ai, you're more likely to just get a response. You won't necessarily get a link to different websites.
[00:40:41] Sarah: So, whereas before you might have ranked in the first five, um, if you were, so what'd
[00:40:46] James: you do? You know, how do, how do you.
[00:40:47] Sarah: Well, you need to look at where those AI platforms are pulling their information from. Um, and they're all pulling them from different sources. So you need to, to really learn and understand, how
[00:40:58] James: can
[00:40:58] Sarah: you see that?
[00:40:58] Sarah: Can, you can ask it.
[00:40:59] James: You just ask it directly. You can
[00:41:00] Sarah: ask the AI platform, where are you getting your information from? Where are you getting your information from? So that should be
[00:41:03] James: your first question. Yeah.
[00:41:04] Sarah: Or you can look at, you can, you can ask the AI platform about your own business and find out where it's pulling from.
[00:41:10] Sarah: And that will give you some idea of the sort of platforms and things that you need to be influencing. You can think about your own communications plans and how they're supporting you and being found. So I don't wanna make this a massive plug about public relations, but you mentioned about, um, media coverage when we first started speaking today.
[00:41:31] Sarah: And yeah, if you are well quoted in the press, if you are, if there's lots of information about your business and different sources, it's not just the media. It could be influencers talking about you. It could be. Information about you on, uh, membership websites or industry platforms, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:41:50] Sarah: Right? That's gonna stand you in good stead because then what that's telling AI is that you're a credible business, that other people feel you're a credible business, helps bring that information forward if you've media
[00:42:00] James: coverage. Yeah. So, so that's what I was gonna ask you, the role media coverage by.
[00:42:03] James: Yeah. So you are saying if you've got media coverage, AI will go and find that. Yes. And then replay it back to whoever's asking the question. Yes.
[00:42:12] Sarah: Yeah. That might change over the next couple of years. 'cause there's obviously a lot of cases out there where the media are trying to grapple with how they want, um, those AI platforms to, uh, scour their,
[00:42:23] James: well, they don't like it, their websites et well, their IP being sort of Yeah,
[00:42:27] Sarah: absolutely.
[00:42:27] Sarah: So I think this will all change. It's constantly changing. So any advice will go out of date really, really quickly. But at, at the moment, those, those. Platforms are really important because they've got really high domain authorities. So, you know, so
[00:42:41] James: these are third party publishers?
[00:42:43] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. They've got really high domain authorities and so that's telling AI that they, you know, that's really credible information.
[00:42:49] Sarah: Um, and that, that supports it because there's a lot
[00:42:51] James: of fake information out there as well, isn't there? So there is, there is. AI could be going on that too, or would be it?
[00:42:57] Sarah: It could, it could be. Which is why it's always important to ask for sources, um, if you're, if you're doing a search. And it's also important to look beyond sort of media coverage as well.
[00:43:06] Sarah: So explain, sorry, you said something
[00:43:07] James: I wanna understand. So it's important to ask for sources if you're doing a search. Do you mean on each search?
[00:43:13] Sarah: So if you are, so if you were, I dunno, looking for, say. In the recruitment industry, if you were looking for a new supplier of office furniture or something like that, you might, and you, and it brought up a series of results for you, it would be worth you saying and what are the sources for the that.
[00:43:29] Sarah: So you can judge whether you feel those sources are really good. So that should be a good
[00:43:32] James: supplementary question.
[00:43:33] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. If you're in the sort, if you're in a world where you are using AI to, to look for,
[00:43:39] James: well you don't know information because you wanna know whether it's
[00:43:42] Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Definitely reliable.
[00:43:44] Sarah: Definitely, definitely. But, but I guess when it comes to you marketing your own business, then Yeah, absolutely. Me media's a really good source to build credibility, but you should also be looking at influencers within your space, um, looking at the way you are portrayed across different channels and your own media, um, activity.
[00:44:03] Sarah: So whether you've got your own YouTube channel, um, the role of your own LinkedIn or all of those sort of platforms will be scoured for that information.
[00:44:11] James: So that was my next question really. How can founders optimize their own content? Such as websites or articles or other platforms to surface themselves successfully.
[00:44:22] James: Yeah, sure. So what would, what would be your advice to focus on first?
[00:44:26] Sarah: No problem. So, um, I guess in the old days when it was all about search engine results, it was, it was all about keywords. So companies would try to make sure that websites had a lot of keywords on that might, may help them be found. Yes.
[00:44:40] Sarah: Now it's a lot of it's about intent. So trying to understand what potential buyers or people that want information, whatever form that is or whatever the, the question might be that they understand the intent behind the questions. So, um, for instance, if, if I wanted to get my nails done after this session, then the question, the intent that I had would have, would be what would be great nail salons around Chancery lane.
[00:45:04] Sarah: So my intent is a, is captured in a whole question there, rather than a, a singular word.
[00:45:11] James: So, but you would, you would put in a longer search into. Chap, GPT or whatever, if you, you would ask it that question, wouldn't you?
[00:45:18] Sarah: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. So you wouldn't best
[00:45:20] James: put nail salons near me or would you, I mean, probably give you the same result, wouldn't it?
[00:45:24] James: Yeah,
[00:45:24] Sarah: probably, probably give you the same result, but I guess it's also, um, just really trying to think if you are the nail salon, what, what people are gonna ask for. So yeah. Acrylic nails near me or, um,
[00:45:36] James: oh, so you're saying from, from the nail salons point of view, yes. They need to, so what, think about the intent.
[00:45:41] James: So how, what, what should they be doing then to make sure that they come up first? In your AI generated answer to that question.
[00:45:50] Sarah: Oh, that's this poor nail salon. I'm gonna create a lot of work for them now, aren't I? Yeah. No, but I,
[00:45:54] James: I think you're gonna help them a lot. Anyone in nail salons listen to this? So what should they be doing?
[00:45:58] James: Yeah.
[00:45:59] Sarah: Um, so they, they need to make sure, so they could be working with local influencers to talk about different services that they offer. That might be different. I other this fabulous nail salon. Salon, yeah. Experience or X, Y, Z. They could be thinking about Google reviews and ensuring that all of their customers are giving them, um, good reviews or incentivizing them to do that.
[00:46:18] Sarah: They should be thinking about platforms like YouTube. Perhaps they're doing tutorials for customers and how to take care of their nails. Um, they could be looking. Also, uh, um, platforms like even things like Google My Business, you know, it might be Google, but it's still important 'cause it's still a trust signal that they've got, you know, their profile up together on that.
[00:46:37] Sarah: They've got lots of images and videos about what they're doing on those types of platforms. So it's just trying to understand all those different touch points that could influence the search. And although Google, um, you know, may not have the same sort of. I guess power as it did before when it completely sort of owned the ecosystem.
[00:46:54] Sarah: I mean, obviously there are others, Yahoo, Bing, et cetera. Um, Google also has AI overviews, so Sure does. Yeah. That's also
[00:47:02] James: sometimes comes up and sometimes doesn't. It
[00:47:03] Sarah: might. Yeah, it does. Yeah. I think 55% of the time I read earlier is it, but it's becoming more and more, um, you know, part of that platform too.
[00:47:11] Sarah: So. Um, you, you, you're more like, you just like to get an AI sort of type of response on Google is what you would using chat. GPTI used
[00:47:19] James: you gave a lot of useful tips to the nail salon, but one thing that I, I, I particularly think is special is, is this idea of tutorials and, and we had a wonderful baker on the podcast recently and he, he runs bakery, um, courses.
[00:47:37] James: And it seems to me that if you do that and you're giving back in that way, helping people learn something that really helps with content and sort of activation.
[00:47:46] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So
[00:47:47] James: you've seen that elsewhere, have you?
[00:47:49] Sarah: Definitely. Um, I think that comes back to that whole idea of that thoughtful leadership piece.
[00:47:53] Sarah: It's, it's, it's also about being helpful, isn't it? I think one thing we've seen in business and all the different industries that we work in is since COVID, a lot of people that were competitors have now become almost collaborative. You know, that environment. It is changed. You people want other people to succeed.
[00:48:12] Sarah: Um, yeah. You
[00:48:12] James: think in the old days, well I'm a baker. Why am I gonna teach other people to be bakers? Yeah. 'cause they'll compete with me. Yeah. But you are now, so this helpful aspect, I think being helpful, which goes with thoughtful, is very important. Now
[00:48:22] Sarah: being helpful is really, really important. And is, is not a, is a pretty good content strategy, is to share, you know, what, what you do if you are on the consumer side, obviously that might be around, as you said, um, consumer marketing side, showing people how to make bread, how to make cakes, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:48:39] Sarah: And if you're in the business to business world, that might be around how you're building your business or what you're doing differently. That's, uh, creating success.
[00:48:47] James: Yeah. I think I like this. Thoughtful and helpful. Are good communication starting points.
[00:48:52] Sarah: I think so,
[00:48:53] James: yeah. Um, are there any other smart ways that small businesses can use AI tools?
[00:48:59] James: Um, to communicate effectively. 'cause you know, we're trying to help our audience here.
[00:49:05] Sarah: Yeah.
[00:49:05] James: Um, build their business. Yeah.
[00:49:07] Sarah: I think AI should be part of any communications toolbox now. You got
[00:49:10] James: any special ideas?
[00:49:12] Sarah: Yeah, for sure. So, um, I guess there's lot, lots of ways that you can use AI to sort of triangulate research and insights.
[00:49:20] Sarah: So if you are starting out and you haven't got budget to do your own proprietary research into your customer base, um, you can use AI to develop. Prompts to help you find out more about your customer. You can create your own sort of little GPTs, which aren't hard to do. And I say that because I've done it.
[00:49:41] Sarah: I'm definitely not, than my team. So what the
[00:49:43] James: GPT have you created that is interesting? So we've, we,
[00:49:45] Sarah: so we've created one, um, for clients, um, on award entry. So it's, it takes a lot of time to write award entries.
[00:49:53] James: Uh, um, what we, would you wanna go into a composition for your business? Yeah, absolutely.
[00:49:58] Sarah: So we've programmed, um, GPTs with com client information.
[00:50:03] Sarah: We've used obviously professional versions of those AI tools so that, um, that information is safe and secure and governed. And then every time we want to enter something we can. Write down what it is we want to say, pop that through ai, get the information back, and then it's really important to then have that human touch to shape it up, make sure it's accurate.
[00:50:23] Sarah: But you can enter
[00:50:23] James: a lot more awards, but you can
[00:50:25] Sarah: enter a lot more awards. But most importantly, you can save quite a lot of time. Um, and then if we go back to that sort of research and insight bit, you can, um, you can program GPT to be your, your audience. So if your audience is, I dunno, four 40-year-old, um, 40-year-old middle class men or something like that, then you can program a GPT to be and to think.
[00:50:47] Sarah: And to act like how frightening we've got now salons, we've got 40-year-old men. I'm coming out with all of them today, aren't I? So you could walk, so are you suggesting all
[00:50:57] James: 40-year-old men are the same?
[00:50:59] Sarah: No, no. You can create multiple personalities. Oh, that's even more frightening. Yeah, exactly. But what that does is just allows you to, so what does it do?
[00:51:07] Sarah: Yeah. It allows you to have a conversation. So you can say, how will this land, what do you think of this, this Dave or whatever? What do you think of that? So there's lots there that you can build. I mean, all of that takes time, of course, but it's going to be a lot more cost effective. Sure. That's brilliant than using research houses.
[00:51:21] Sarah: And then when you get into communications, I think, you know, all, all anyone that runs a PR agency or works in PR is, is considering or using, starting to use AI in their comms. But it's really important that it's human first and that anything AI is used to augment what you're already doing rather than create it.
[00:51:42] Sarah: From scratch and yeah. And that efficiency is all about then creating time to do more meaningful work. You know, better consultancy, freeing up your time to do, to do valuable activities that are gonna move your business on.
[00:51:54] James: So creating your own GPTs is a big message here.
[00:51:57] Sarah: It is. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, our team love triangulating research with, um, with ai.
[00:52:05] Sarah: So they'll look at research from different sources and then pop that in and ask to find the overlaps and then they feel much more confident. Is that
[00:52:13] James: what you mean by triangulate?
[00:52:14] Sarah: Yeah. So they take lots of different sources Yeah.
[00:52:17] James: And
[00:52:17] Sarah: put it into, um, ai and then they use that to sort of see where the overlap is and where they then start to feel confident in the output of that.
[00:52:26] Sarah: Of that research, because when you're sort of developing those communications plans,
[00:52:30] James: well this, this is more reliable than it might. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:52:33] Sarah: Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, for instance, information that's widely available. So you, I mean, gosh, some of those big consultancies like PWC and ey, they're really generous, aren't they, with what they publish.
[00:52:45] Sarah: But you can start to, you know, take some of that information and say, well, how this relate to my business? What should I be taking out of this? And it just supports all your thinking.
[00:52:54] James: Also, there's a lot of it. So it takes a long time unless you have some help to decide which to read or which definitely.
[00:53:01] Sarah: And then from a communications point of view, we talked about thoughtful leadership, but let's go back to thought leadership. Um, if you want to understand where you can sit in on a topic compared to your competitors, you can start to ask ai, you know, what are my competitors doing on this subject matter?
[00:53:20] Sarah: What's the space that I could own on this? Mm. What's the sort of narrative that I could develop to help me stand out my business, to stand out and all those sort of prompts? I mean, you have to keep prompting, keep shaping can lead you somewhere. I mean, you've still got to put the human aspect and you've still got to have a point of view, but it does help you to find, gotta think about it.
[00:53:39] Sarah: Yeah, exactly. But it helps you to find space, isn't it? Because
[00:53:42] James: potentially we live in such a
[00:53:43] Sarah: cluttered. Communications. I say, I did
[00:53:46] James: great our business strategy yet, but I might try it now Basis of this, what of my competitors doing? Always an interesting question. Yeah. So to, so bring all this together, you know, what next, for ambitious, what are you gonna be doing?
[00:54:00] James: Where are you gonna take the business from here?
[00:54:03] Sarah: Well, we're on a bit of a journey at the moment to, uh, double our revenue in the next. Two to three years. So that's a really big focus for us. Yeah. Um, and we are doing that through sort of growing into the sectors that we're strong in. So we do a lot in professional services, financial services, a lot in sort of that ESG space as well.
[00:54:23] Sarah: Um, and then, yeah, technology is a big focus for us as a sector too. So, um, and the, and the kind of clients that we are working with, the scaling businesses, we are growing with them. So as they grow, we grow. Um, many of our client relationships are sort of in the fifth, sixth, seventh plus years, so
[00:54:41] James: Right.
[00:54:41] Sarah: As long as we start, keep, keep, keep going with those, then we can, uh, we can, we can grow alongside of our clients.
[00:54:46] James: And your clients all over the country or in a particular area or all around the world. I mean, what
[00:54:51] Sarah: all over the country really. So, um, we're. Based in, in, in Bristol. And um, that is a huge growth area as a high GTP compared to some parts of the uk. So we have a lot of businesses that are coming out of that part of the country and that stood us in really good stead.
[00:55:07] Sarah: So about 50% of our business, of our clients are based in Bristol, but they are going national or international. And then the other 50% are all over the world. Right. Um, we come up and down to London regularly. Um, 'cause we've got a lot of clients here too. And, and it's great to have that mix and, and we play a very active role.
[00:55:26] Sarah: I suppose that's another PR strategy, but being, being a very active player within our community serves us very well. You know, investing in the different business communities that we have there. That's part of our soft power, I guess, as an agency and, and something we recommend our clients do as well is, you know, be active in the communities that you're in.
[00:55:45] James: So you are big in Bristol?
[00:55:47] Sarah: We are big in Bristol.
[00:55:48] James: Excellent. I love Bristol. It's a great city. So, and I hope you get bigger in Bristol. That's very good. So, uh, well thank you so much for coming in to talk to me today. Thanks, joy. Thank you. I really found that very interesting. I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions I ask everybody at the end.
[00:56:03] James: My first question is, what gets you up on a Monday morning?
[00:56:09] Sarah: Um, doing great work for our clients, but mostly it's seeing the growth in our team. Um, we haven't had anyone leave our team on the client servicing side for five whole years. Um, and seeing those people go from, I guess, being junior to senior or or mid to senior, it is just incredible.
[00:56:31] Sarah: So yeah, my team get me out of bed because they're all excitable, they're all investing in their futures, they're investing in understanding sort of technology that's coming down the line and their excitement really fuels me.
[00:56:44] James: Fantastic. And my last question. Which is from my interview, but why you is, where do you see yourself in five years time?
[00:56:52] Sarah: It's
[00:56:52] James: not meant to be a joke. You can laugh.
[00:56:56] Sarah: Um, well, I hope, well, people should do that in
[00:56:58] James: job interview. I hope in the next
[00:57:00] Sarah: few years we, we double our revenue and we meet our goal to do that. Um, and I, I'd love to be in a position then where absolutely still very much involved in ambitious and its growth, but I'd love to be giving back more to the PR community and the sectors that we're, we're active in, because I think in my 25 years, the, the, the real joy for me now is, is, is making a contribution and seeing the impact of that, uh, rather than it being sort of all, all about me.
[00:57:30] James: Fantastic. Well, I wish you every success with that. Thank you. And thank you again for coming in to talk to me. Thank you. That was very enjoyable and interesting. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Fabulous.
[00:57:41] Sarah: Great.
[00:57:42] James: Good job. Really
[00:57:43] Sarah: good. Got a bit hairy there with some of those examples. I was like, where's he gonna go with that?
[00:57:51] James: Keep you interested.
[00:57:54] Sarah: Oh, my toes, you mean? I was like, oh my goodness. I actually, uh, emailed Sarah beforehand saying, don't worry. No curve balls. Did you? Yeah. I was like, thinking
[00:58:05] James: they thank, set
[00:58:06] Sarah: me up there. No,
[00:58:08] James: that was an idea I had on the way over. Then as a friend, he
[00:58:11] Sarah: came in and said, and I was, oh God.
[00:58:13] Sarah: Shouldn't have said that. No, I think I, yeah, I'm not sure how much I thought on my feet there, but I suppose, yeah, that's still part of it.
[00:58:21] James: Think, by the way, were all perfectly good answers. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I thought they were perfectly good answers. I mean, I, I, the Burger King one, I, it was interesting you said they should have said something.
[00:58:32] James: I think I probably agree with you.
[00:58:35] Sarah: So they didn't
[00:58:37] James: Well, I don't, yeah, I didn't say emphatically. They didn't, but I don't think they did. And then the, the, you obviously followed the Marks and Spencer one quite closely.
[00:58:45] Sarah: Yeah, well, I didn't wanna say, but my partner, he's been consulting quite heavily on the sort of network cyber architecture right side of it.
[00:58:54] Sarah: Also couldn't say sort of firsthand. So you,
[00:58:57] James: because I, there was some cri, 'cause I looked that up, there was some criticism. They started off well, but then didn't, well they couldn't really say anything. I dunno, what was it? I looked it up earlier.
[00:59:09] Sarah: I think they missed an, if I'm honest, I, I didn't say this because it wasn't relevant to the question.
[00:59:12] Sarah: I think they missed an opportunity there because I think actually when you consider it, they, I think they could have done a lot on the sentiment side of things. There was so much good sentiment towards them. Yeah. I don't think, I think where they were on the back foot and they were reactive and dealing with the crisis, the bit that they didn't do was then activate that from a consumer marketing point of view and really think about how they could harness that goodwill.
[00:59:39] Sarah: Because I couldn't believe about the goodwill. Yeah. The Goodwill's incredible. I mean, I, in our office, and I guess we probably are a little bit over indexed on women in our office. Yeah. But the women that were waiting for them to come back online because they needed to place the school uniform order.
[00:59:53] Sarah: Yeah. Or the order of the swimsuit that they had in mind for their summer holiday or whatever. It was, it was just incredible. I was like, this is, this needs a whole campaign behind it. But, you know, that's difficult if you've got your whole team focused on dealing with a crisis. I think my colleagues
[01:00:07] James: must have got this, 'cause I just asked them, as I said, on the way across, but they said Marks and Spencer Cyber attack, April, may 20, the crisis, a ransomware attack, um, blah, blah, PR and crisis response, immediate transparency, co.
[01:00:19] James: Stuart Mackin issued a personal apology within 24 hours, acknowledging the disruption and promising updates, consistent messaging m and s, u's social media to website its website and email to communicate clearly and frequently regular. So I thought the two bits, I thought that the, the sort of communications that I like from that were thoughtful bit going from thought leadership leader to thoughtful leadership.
[01:00:44] James: I thought that was, yeah. And then adding helpful at the end.
[01:00:47] Sarah: Yeah. That's nice
[01:00:48] James: because I think that's quite, I think that is, I think she's onto something with that. I think that's interesting.
[01:00:53] Sarah: Are you thinking about
[01:00:54] James: Well, I'm just the best Well, well, I'm just thinking if we're gonna take something from, because I'm just thinking what we're trying to do here is both thoughtful and helpful.
[01:01:00] James: Hopefully. Yeah. Entertainment. So I, but I think, I suppose I hadn't, I hadn't sort of distilled it down to just two words. Mm-hmm. But it's sort of is, well, that's what we want to, you know, we're offering thoughtful leadership and hopefully through ideas and helpful to people who want to do stuff.
[01:01:20] Sarah: Yeah. I like
[01:01:21] James: that.
[01:01:22] James: So, yeah, I just thought that was good. Okay. How can businesses build lasting trust in a world of shifting media patterns and instant scrutiny? What role does strategic communication play in shaping reputation, especially during moments of growth or crisis? Joining me today on all about business is Sarah Woodhouse.
[01:01:46] James: Co-owner and director at Ambitious, a communications agency supporting high growth businesses across sectors like finance, healthcare, and education. With over 25, with over 25 years of experience in public relations, Sarah shares practical lessons on how to communicate with purpose, prepare for the unexpected, and tailor your message to connect with the audience that matter most to you,
[01:02:16] Sarah: I think Matter most is fine.
[01:02:18] James: Yeah. I put to you on at the end.
[01:02:21] Sarah: Is that you? Yeah. Sorry.
[01:02:24] James: I thought it's good. You like your own writing. I'll do that last paragraph again. You're right. I think don't need to you with over t. With over, with over 25 years of experience in public relations, Sarah shares practical lessons on how to communicate with purpose.
[01:02:44] James: Prepare for the unexpected and tailor your message to connect with the audiences that matter most. Right. Is that good? Yeah. Do you want me to do the whole thing again or are we all right with that?
[01:02:56] Sarah: I think it was fine in two parts that, um, you sure. Should I do it? Should I just do it from the top? Take a sip of water.
[01:03:02] James: Yeah,
[01:03:06] James: I'll do it from the top. One more time. Intro. How can businesses build lasting trust in a world of shifting media patterns and instant scrutiny? What role does strategic communication play in shaping reputation, especially during moments of growth or crisis? Joining me today on all about business is Sarah Woodhouse, co-owner and director at Ambitious, a communications agency supporting high growth businesses across sectors like finance, healthcare, and technology.
[01:03:42] James: With over 25 years of experience in public relations share with over 25 years of ex. With over 25 years of experience in public relations, Sarah shares practical lessons on how to communicate with purpose, prepare for the unexpected, and tailor your message to connect with the audiences that matter most.
[01:04:05] James: Nice. Is that right? Sarah? Shares was a bit difficult. Outro. Outro. Thank you, Sarah, for joining me on all About Business. I'm your host, James Re chairman, and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about Reed, Sarah, and Ambitious, all links are in the show notes.
[01:04:30] James: See you next time. There we go.
[01:04:33] Sarah: There we go.
This podcast was co-produced by Reed Global and Flamingo Media. If you’d like to create a chart-topping podcast to elevate your brand, visit https://www.Flamingo-media.co.uk.