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In this episode of all about business, James Reed is joined by Michelle Kennedy, founder and CEO of Peanut- the social networking app that has transformed how women connect and help each other through every stage of motherhood.
What does it take to walk away from a top executive role and start from scratch? From pitching with nothing but a deck, to raising over $23 million, to building one of the most trusted platforms for women online, listen to Michelle's story and find out.
We dive into her strategy for building a matchmaking app that attracts millions of users, how to validate your idea before you build it, and the biggest lessons she’s learned as a female founder.
Michelle also opens up about the hardest parts of fundraising, how she built traction without a product, and why not every business should take venture capital.
01:42 Introduction - Michelle Kennedy
01:54 Peanut - Social Media App
09:09 Raising Money
11:34 Advice on Deck, Pitch, Value Proposition
15:56 Not Every Business Needs the Venture Capital Path
20:04 I Wouldn't Have Done It If I Knew ...
24:25 Achieving Critical Mass - The Network Effect
27:40 Start Without Building The App
33:34 Peanut Start Her Fund for Women
36:48 Advice to Family Women on Starting a Business
46:59 Curiosity Spawns New Ideas
50:10 Why A Book In The Digital Age?
54:57 Reed Interview Round - What Gets You Up Monday Morning?
56:39 Where Michelle Sees Herself in Five Years
Check out Peanuts’s website:https://www.peanut-app.io/
Follow Peanut on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/peanut-app/
Download Peanut app from Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teampeanut.peanut&hl=en_GB&pli=1
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
[00:00:00] Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers [00:00:05] everything about business management and leadership. Every episode I sit down with [00:00:10] different guests of bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, or built a [00:00:15] business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and [00:00:20] actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business [00:00:25] venture.[00:00:30]
Well today on all About business, I couldn't be more delighted than to welcome Michelle [00:00:35] Kennedy. Thank you for coming in to talk to me. Michelle. Michelle is the founder and [00:00:40] CEO of Social Networking App. Peanut and Peanut is. Particularly [00:00:45] focused on creating a community of women who need connection and support through various life [00:00:50] stages.
And this was your idea, wasn't it, Michelle? It was. Why did you think [00:00:55] Peanut as now constituted was needed? Great question. Long answer. I'm afraid. [00:01:00] I, uh, was working in the dating industry, so I was building dating apps. Dating apps, very different, [00:01:05] but I had a newborn. So I was working in this environment where we were building [00:01:10] incredible tech products and by night I was, you know, searching.
The internet [00:01:15] for answers. Googling like a true millennial, right? Um, for answers to [00:01:20] why won't he sleep? Will this ever end, right? Is it normal? All of the, the [00:01:25] questions that a new mom goes through. And it just felt like there wasn't anything that really spoke to me as a [00:01:30] mother. There were products on the market, but they didn't feel like the products I was building or using in any other [00:01:35] part of my life.
And so kind of live with this idea of we should have something where I [00:01:40] can find some friends or. Find some connections, um, to ask questions [00:01:45] too about this life stage and. Did nothing carried on with a [00:01:50] day job because that was pretty full on, and I loved what I was doing. So what were you working at this time?
I was [00:01:55] working at bdu, which is a, or was at the time, the biggest European dating platform and we [00:02:00] were building Bumble. Bumble. So Bumble was. I, I have to say I've never used [00:02:05] the dating. No, that's all right. We forgive you 'cause I'm so old. We forgive you. So what, what [00:02:10] was special about Bumble? I think yeah, it was obviously very successful.
'cause I've heard of it. Yes. And I think it's still around. [00:02:15] It is very much so. I mean, it was very exciting. You know, BDU was this incredible [00:02:20] platform that had 52 million users when I joined it, and I'd never heard of it. Wow. And [00:02:25] it was just this explosive growth and Bumble. We were building [00:02:30] within, um, bdu, and it was really just an answer to having a native first product, [00:02:35] which spoke to women.
It was incredibly exciting. But I had a six month old, so, you know, I felt like I was [00:02:40] leading, leading a double life by day, you know, brainstorming. Is that the right [00:02:45] color? Is that the right name? Who's the right person to seed this? You know, all of these things with, with [00:02:50] Whitney Wolf, and, and by night, you know, 3:00 AM.
Feeding, feeling like the loneliest girl in [00:02:55] the world. 'cause there was no one else awake. Or if they were, they were in the nightclub. Um, and not [00:03:00] searching what I was searching. So that's dead a jumble life. It was, it was so, it was surreal at the time. [00:03:05] And so you could see all this sort of investment and capability or [00:03:10] digital support around dating, but you couldn't see it around parenting or young parenting [00:03:15] at that point.
It wasn't very cool. It, it wasn't really anything that was out there that [00:03:20] was focused on motherhood in particular Mom's net. Surely, I mean, is that, [00:03:25] is that, I think Mum said did something phenomenal. Yeah. But. Mum's net is [00:03:30] 25 this year. Is it? And I think that speaks generationally to where we [00:03:35] were and how I felt with that product.
They, I, I think Justine did something amazing and I would never, ever [00:03:40] say anything to the contrary, but it wasn't the product that I needed at that point in my life. So people are at a different [00:03:45] stage where a typical mum's net. Yeah. I wanted to find friends. I wanted to find [00:03:50] like-minded women. Like-minded didn't just mean you have a baby, I have a baby, let's be friends.
[00:03:55] It meant, you know, what are you into, what are you doing in your personal life? And asking [00:04:00] questions and feeling safe, right? And feeling like it was just for women where I could [00:04:05] share, you know, my C-section scar looks like this. Is that normal? Or whatever it might be. So being able to [00:04:10] be very vulnerable, very open, and also just find community because [00:04:15] you know.
I'm not from London and my girlfriends weren't having babies, and it's [00:04:20] very different. Where are you from originally? I'm from Peterborough. Peterborough, yeah. Oh sense. That's a great place [00:04:25] for my sense. But I, you know, when you're not living around the family and you are, um, [00:04:30] trying to build connections and community, it's hard.
We don't live where we grew up anymore. [00:04:35] You know, we move for work, for better lifestyle, whatever it might be, and [00:04:40] we need products that help us build that community. So that was, that was your motivation? That [00:04:45] was the motivation. And I did nothing for two years. And carried on with Bumble or you were just aware of this problem, [00:04:50] just thinking about it.
Yeah, living with it. Boring my friends in the pub on a Friday with it. [00:04:55] Um, and then my son got to kind of two and a half. And I was like, this is not going anywhere. The [00:05:00] bigger the kid, the bigger the problem. Now I need to understand what he should be doing for nursery and how [00:05:05] these other people are coping.
Terrible twos, I remember being called. Is that still, does that still happen? That's very much [00:05:10] a thing. Kids, I would like to confirm. I'm very pleased to hear that. No, no. That's very much a thing. And so that [00:05:15] was, and that was it. I, um, really felt that. That was the [00:05:20] time and that was the moment. And I took a big risk and I left my lovely job, [00:05:25] which I loved.
And my Because you were pretty senior at this point. I was. I was. So what was your job title of [00:05:30] that? I was deputy, CEO and I was deputy CEO. Yeah. Of what? Bou or of bou, [00:05:35] which should had many millions of people. Yes. I mean, it was, it was such an [00:05:40] exciting time. It was a very, very big decision to make. Um, but I probably got the [00:05:45] bug from Bumble.
I wanted to build. So you left Purdue and you started your own [00:05:50] at Peanut. Yes. But how did you do that? I mean, where did you start? I mean, it takes [00:05:55] money. You have to find people, you have to, yeah. Get It was technologists. What did you, [00:06:00] what did you do first? It was really hard. I was under massive restrictive covenants.
'cause I stayed on [00:06:05] the board of Purdue and Bumble, so I couldn't go and hire. Anyone basically that had worked [00:06:10] with me or was working with me. Right. And at the time, the London Tech scene was pretty [00:06:15] small anyway, so if you weren't working, so when are we talking about now? So this is 2016 [00:06:20] and, uh, it was a different tech world.
Um, and if you weren't working at [00:06:25] Purdue or Bumble, you were probably working at Google or Facebook and there weren't, uh, or FinTech and there [00:06:30] weren't that many options actually. Um, so it was challenging, but I knew what I wanted [00:06:35] to build, so I had me and a. Deck. And, [00:06:40] um, one person who left with me, like Jerry McGuire, I will go with you.
One person [00:06:45] who would go with me. And, uh, that was it. We started. So that one person, what was their [00:06:50] role? Cheerleader? Um, no, she, uh, so you started off with a team of [00:06:55] two basically. Team of two. Is that a person still with you? She has actually gone on to do something else. [00:07:00] Amazing, right. But, um, she was with me for.
Over six years. Right? Yeah. So you [00:07:05] began with two people. Yep. And why did you settle on the name Peanut? How did that happen? That was [00:07:10] because, uh, when I was pregnant with Finn, I had read that my baby was the [00:07:15] size of a peanut, so that was it forever. It's after him dedicated to [00:07:20] Finn. So that was the beginning of, so that's the beginning of that journey?
Yeah, I guess exactly. [00:07:25] Well, that's a, that's a good reason for, so did you know straight away that that was what you wanted to call [00:07:30] your business? Absolutely not in the office at the time. Everyone would call my Bump Peanut. How's [00:07:35] Peanut? When he was born, I got all of these presents that were all peanut themed.
Right. So it was started very early. [00:07:40] So that was 2013. It was another couple of years before Little Peanut became, [00:07:45] um, the focus for the business of Digital Peanut. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So, [00:07:50] so you started out and you raised. I understand a lot of money for this [00:07:55] project. How much did you raise and how did you go about it?
I think in total we've raised [00:08:00] over 23 million. Um, uh, but it's been hard and I don't want [00:08:05] anyone to listen and think, wow, she raised 23 out the bat. You know, you start incrementally, I [00:08:10] had me in a term sheet and a deck with no product for a very long time. So a deck is a A slide [00:08:15] deck? Yes. A story. So basically a story.
A pitch deck. So you had a pitch? Yeah, I had a pitch deck and [00:08:20] a term sheet and then I got a term sheet. What was on the term sheet? It was very vanilla actually. It was very nice, but it [00:08:25] was, you know, it was from a US fund and. I had a, [00:08:30] what I thought at the time was an incredible valuation and I now know was pretty low.
But anyway, at the [00:08:35] time it felt amazing and then I had to go and fill the round and I was, you know, really learning as I [00:08:40] go, understanding the difference between US Venture and UK and European Venture. So [00:08:45] what is the difference? Yeah, I mean, US venture, the valuations are [00:08:50] headier. I would say, right. Uh, decisions are quicker.
Um, and [00:08:55] here sounds like a reason to go to the US Yeah. Particularly, um, at that time, [00:09:00] right? We didn't have such an array of early stage venture funds here. [00:09:05] Actually, a lot of, a lot of funds were put off by the fact that my lead investor was gonna be a US [00:09:10] fund. Why? Uh, the valuation, uh, they just sort of looked to, they thought that they were gonna [00:09:15] do all the work.
And you know, I was based here. Right. Um, and [00:09:20] yes, I think that, but you achieved your goal, didn't you? Absolutely. You got the money you needed. Absolutely. Absolutely. So where did that [00:09:25] come from? In the, mainly from the us or was it also both actually. So you persuaded people here? Absolutely, [00:09:30] because I, you know, I think.
Now I, I do think the landscape is [00:09:35] different and I think actually it's a huge kudos if you have a term sheet from a US fund [00:09:40] actually. Oh, you thought that's helpful? Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Yeah. But at the time I think there was a lot of, I think that [00:09:45] people did feel that it was not market, so that was thrown around a [00:09:50] lot.
The terms aren't market. Market. Mm. What's that mean? [00:09:55] I think they, what they meant was it feels expensive. Oh, they just didn't say it like that. Yeah. Didn't they? [00:10:00] Exactly. Oh, right. I would've said that seemed expensive. Yeah. Okay, so just rolling back a [00:10:05] bit. A lot of people. You know, dreaming of starting a business or thinking they might go [00:10:10] and try and raise some money for a project, they've either got underwear or about to start.
What would be [00:10:15] your advice to them in terms of what should be in that deck? What should be in the pitch? How should [00:10:20] you land your proposition? So I think a lot of people say [00:10:25] this, but I do believe it's true and I, I believe it's true also for me now when I do [00:10:30] investing, which is people really are investing in the person.
Right. Yes. They have [00:10:35] to be interested in the product space, but actually they have to really believe in you [00:10:40] because there's gonna be ups and downs. The market can change, everything can cha. Technology can [00:10:45] change. You don't know what you don't know yet. And so they have to believe that you are the right [00:10:50] person to adapt and change and, uh.
Move [00:10:55] and still bring them a return on their investment. And I think that is [00:11:00] the absolute key to remember. It's really about you. So you have to set out in [00:11:05] that deck why you are the right person to solve this problem. What is the problem? What's the [00:11:10] size of the opportunity? But most importantly, why you the only person who can solve it.
So [00:11:15] what, what were the qualities you felt you needed to get across then? Well, firstly for me, [00:11:20] size of market was really important because there was a lot of, um, immediate [00:11:25] dismissiveness around moms motherhood. Mums really [00:11:30] want this. Was it dismissiveness from who? Men? Yes. Mostly not other women. Yes. Don't a [00:11:35] men dont apologize?
No. No. Um, but also because we didn't have a lot of women who had check [00:11:40] writing capability, you know, things. So they didn't have the authorization. Correct. Things have again moved. So you were present presenting a [00:11:45] lot to men at this point? Al, almost exclusively. Who then said they didn't see a need for this.
I [00:11:50] need to talk to my daughter, niece, cousin. Wife, [00:11:55] assistant, but you know, I don't know if I need this. I remember one man saying, God, not another [00:12:00] social network. My wife will never talk to me. I was like, all right, I can see why she doesn't. [00:12:05] Um, so, you know, there was a lot of, there was a lot of that that happened at the time.
Did [00:12:10] you say that because I'd have invested in you straight away. I was much more charming than [00:12:15] that. Oh, right. But, uh, mentally, I, I. Can tell you some of the things that I [00:12:20] thought were less than complimentary. I think that, um, you know, also [00:12:25] some of the things that I experienced, I definitely, I'm a bit more grumpy in my old age and I wouldn't people say [00:12:30] that about me as well, do they?
I maybe it happens, you know, on journey. You just become a little. So [00:12:35] less tolerant to things and I wouldn't have accepted some of the things that I accepted. Then what does your husband think [00:12:40] about you doing? This was another one. I was like, what's it got to do with him? I do No, quite, why don't you ask him?[00:12:45]
Um, you know, there were a lot of these kind of, who's gonna look after your. Child, you [00:12:50] know, lots of comments like that along the way. And most importantly, so, okay. We're going back [00:12:55] to the, the, the key point which you've made very well is in the end, they're investing in you, the person, [00:13:00] and they're looking for what, what qualities or experiences you bring that make this [00:13:05] a good investment?
This particular pitch. Yeah, that's what you said. So I mean, what are the top three things [00:13:10] that you would say, I'm gonna back Michelle because X, Y, and Z. Well, she knows her market. [00:13:15] I knew that market and I, it wasn't an accident. I spoke to over 250 [00:13:20] women. So, and by the way, I didn't know 250 mothers. If I did, I probably wouldn't have built the app in the first [00:13:25] place.
But I, I'm gonna ask you why in a minute. Go. Yeah, I would, I would speak to a woman and [00:13:30] ask her to intrude me to another woman. Oh. So I had all of these interviews, [00:13:35] so of course it was qualitative data, but it didn't matter. It meant that I had a. Pool of women. So you'd done [00:13:40] your homework. Who had spoken to me about the issues they had and what they wanted to see.
Mm-hmm. So that was the first [00:13:45] thing I knew my market. The second thing is I'd been working in. Apps [00:13:50] and, and actually pre-app I'd been working in connecting people. And thirdly, a belief [00:13:55] that I could continue to go and raise, but attract the best talent. I'd worked with some [00:14:00] incredible people. I actually co-founded Peanut, uh, with a technical co-founder who [00:14:05] was the technical co-founder at Deliveroo.
Right. And so it was really about can I pull together? [00:14:10] Um, networks and really that's what you're taking a bet on when you're investing in anyone. Do I think that [00:14:15] that person can hire the best people and can continue to get support and [00:14:20] investment? Yeah. Yeah. So you, you tick the box for those, I mean, for [00:14:25] some investors.
Exactly. They've, you going Exactly. Well, that's really useful advice for anyone [00:14:30] thinking about pitching to a venture capitalist. Absolutely, and I think it's, it's really [00:14:35] important as well. Firstly, venture is not the only way to fund a business, and I always say that to everyone. [00:14:40] Venture puts you on a path that you don't necessarily.
Need to go on. Not [00:14:45] everything. Who explain what is that path, Wilson? Well, not every business is suited to it. When you take [00:14:50] venture, you are immediately on someone else's clock. So not every [00:14:55] business will become and reach its fullest potential within a five year window. But [00:15:00] that's the return window. That's what they're looking for.
Five years on their their clock. Yeah. You might have a business that you are building over [00:15:05] a decade. You might be building it over several decades, and it will still be an incredible [00:15:10] business. That's amazing. It just doesn't mean that venture is right for you. And I think there's a lot of seduction [00:15:15] around venture capital and getting a term sheet now, and it doesn't suit every business.[00:15:20]
So you've gotta be prepared in a sense, to do something else after five years or have another [00:15:25] round of this. So is that what you mean? Is that what you're saying? I think what I mean is it doesn't come for [00:15:30] free. Mm-hmm. You are not, when you take money from someone else, you are giving away [00:15:35] something that you own in the business.
And so you own, you're selling it, I suppose. Yes, you [00:15:40] are. You are, you are. You know, but you're creating it. You're diluting, yeah. Yeah. Your ownership. And [00:15:45] once you do that, you have to continue to. To raise if you are on a certain [00:15:50] growth trajectory, which might not be right for every business. That's how I would [00:15:55] frame it.
And some of the most incredible businesses are bootstrapped and they never take money, and that [00:16:00] means you own a hundred percent of your business. So from your own revenue. Correct. You invest. Yeah. [00:16:05] Yeah. And some you can do it through debt, so you're taking a small loan or you can [00:16:10] leverage at a later point, but you don't have to take it day one.
And hindsight's [00:16:15] perfect. And quite honestly, I took Venture very early and had I have, so you're saying that that [00:16:20] was. The right decision or you No. Have some regret around that. I de I definitely have regret around that. You do. [00:16:25] So where are you now? I mean, are you say, well now, now I'm very fortunate that we're profitable and [00:16:30] I'm, you know, I've, I've pushed hard.
But you are, the market is very [00:16:35] challenging. At certain points. You are very, when you are in that, [00:16:40] uh, trajectory, you are very vulnerable to market change. Yes. So if [00:16:45] it falls outta favor, for example, for venture to invest in consumer. [00:16:50] And actually all they want to invest in is FinTech, or at the time [00:16:55] Web3, or at the time crypto or at the, or at this present time, ai, [00:17:00] you are all of a sudden, you know, in a less favorable position, you've still gotta keep [00:17:05] going.
So there are lots of things that you do. I would always say to, [00:17:10] so look at other options first you'd say to sort of people starting businesses. Absolutely. And, and that's, [00:17:15] there are some businesses that venture is perfect for, but it's not every business. And it can be a [00:17:20] bit faddish. It sounds like AI is you, I'll let you, I'll let you say [00:17:25] that bit.
Yeah. Well, it sounds like it might be, or Yeah. Everyone's looking in a particular direction [00:17:30] that can be, uh, trends. Yeah. There are some big trends aren't there? Yeah. [00:17:35] So you went through, you went through that process successfully. Yes. And you've built several times. [00:17:40] So you've done several rounds. Several times.
Yes. Several rounds. But you are still [00:17:45] CEO. Yes. Which is, I mean, it can be high risk bringing in venture in that way. [00:17:50] Absolutely. So, absolutely. So as long it gone well, yes, but you know, not, not exclusively. Well, that's the other thing, and [00:17:55] I think it's really important. Well, that's, that's the nature of business, isn't it?
Absolutely. Every year is not a great year and. [00:18:00] Absolutely. But every target is not necessarily a hit. That's it. That's what I've found. And when you, and when you do hit it, you [00:18:05] feel a bit like, what's next? What's next? And you know, the, the [00:18:10] lows still feel low and the highs become less. Hi. That's how I would [00:18:15] describe it, which is a weird feeling, but so that, that speaks to me of the relentless [00:18:20] nature of business.
It is relentless. It never stops, and therefore you better be building something [00:18:25] that you absolutely love, right? Because you get better. Get up every morning and think it is [00:18:30] unrelenting. But I absolutely believe in this and I love it so much, and I am so [00:18:35] excited by. This part or this result. And I think for me, with Peanut, [00:18:40] I'm so lucky in that I know every day we leave the world a little bit better than [00:18:45] the day before.
And um, you know, I've worked in various different [00:18:50] industries and I haven't always felt that way, but I do. I. You said Michelle a few minutes ago, that if, if you'd [00:18:55] known 250 mothers Yeah. You, we wouldn't have started this. I, I wanna understand that. What, what, what [00:19:00] do you mean? I was I wouldn't have been lonely.
You wouldn't have been lonely, I think. Yeah. So you would've had the connection, had community [00:19:05] I think I would've had the community. Yeah. So like in the sort of old days when everyone lived in a village. [00:19:10] Exactly. You know, old hung out together. You, your kid played on the street and your kid was the entire [00:19:15] streets kid.
That, that was kind of, that was my mom's generation. [00:19:20] Everyone knew each other. You knew the families and you lived near one another. Your sister lived around the corner. [00:19:25] Your mom was, you know, five minutes away. And that was the environment we lived in. And we don't live like that [00:19:30] anymore. You know, we don't live in the village anymore.
It's much more isolating, much more isolating. [00:19:35] So your your peanut app Yes. Addresses that. But I mean, [00:19:40] can it replace those sort of contacts? I mean, absolutely. I think that you really feel it. Does it [00:19:45] al it? It already does. So how it, tell me how it works. 'cause you know, I'm not on peanut. No, I'm not In your [00:19:50] target audience.
God, she, I'm pleased. Yeah. I'm pleased that [00:19:55] you are. Please. So, yeah. Yeah. So you wanna make sure it's a safe environment for women. Exactly. Exactly. So there's an onboarding [00:20:00] process. And, um, we look at bringing women into the [00:20:05] app. So you create a profile and then based on your location, based on certain things you tell [00:20:10] us, um, how you engage with other people.
You can find connections. So you'll see other women who are [00:20:15] nearby, and that's driven by an algorithm. You've written an algorithm. Yeah. And the, the more you use it, [00:20:20] the more you engage, the better it becomes about. Showing you women who are going to be [00:20:25] closer to who you'd like to be friends with. So it's helping people find friends, [00:20:30] find friends, join groups.
So you join groups, um, either, what sort of groups are they? [00:20:35] Either around, uh, the month that your child is born, month and year or is due. So [00:20:40] those kind of cohort groups. So you track, oh, my son's an Aries, so you can sympathize all the others. [00:20:45] It, it's, it's more around like tracking at the same time. So if you've got a four month old, it's this [00:20:50] stage.
Should they be rolling? When should they smile? You know, those kind of things. But also about [00:20:55] you. How are you feeling? You know, what, what's going on with you? So you have those groups, you have [00:21:00] interest groups. We have one group, which I love, it's called, it's a Poll World, and it's just women. They're [00:21:05] just send these silly polls all day.
It's really hilarious. Well, you mean in terms of voting? Voting on different things? Yeah. [00:21:10] Uh, we have. Groups, which are called Stitch and Bitch. And you know, women sit [00:21:15] and talk and do things. It's amazing. So we have every single group you can think of. They [00:21:20] can, they connect visually. Yes. So they can see each other.
E Exactly. And then we have live [00:21:25] audio, so you can join an audio room. And women, sometimes they're just. [00:21:30] Shooting the breeze talking all day. They watch movies together via audio. What? At home, you're [00:21:35] watching a film and you're in the, and you're on audio, like talking to each other. I love this part, or whatever it might be.
Oh, right. [00:21:40] So it's just about that having connectivity. If you, you know, if you live in a rural part of [00:21:45] America. And you don't see someone allain and you've got children at home. How do you have that [00:21:50] connectivity? It, you know, and you cater to a large audience In America, 70% of our [00:21:55] users are in the us. Is it?
I didn't know that. So where are the other 30%? Pretty much [00:22:00] uk and, and we'll give a small sliver to, uh, latam because it's, we're [00:22:05] starting to grow that. So, so if you, if you're listening and you're interested Yeah. How do, how do, how does our [00:22:10] audience find you online? What. So what's the address, Michelle? So you go to the app [00:22:15] store and search for peanut app on, um, Google Play or on the, um, [00:22:20] apple App Store.
Um, and that, that's it. Peanut app. Peanut app. And you will [00:22:25] find millions of women just like you at the same life stage, whether you are trying to get [00:22:30] pregnant, whether you're pregnant, you can track your pregnancy as well. We'll tell you whether you've got maybe the [00:22:35] size of a watermelon or whatever it might be.
How do you do that? So we can tell you by the, uh, stage [00:22:40] of your pregnancy. Two of my daughters are pregnant. I can't tell you how excited I am. Well, there you go. So I have to get them onto, [00:22:45] to peanut. They need to go on peanut track. That's, and they can track it's, and you can see the size of the baby's foot so [00:22:50] adorable.
And join groups. So they'll join a group with other women who are due in the same month. Well, that sounds [00:22:55] fantastic. Thank you. So how many people are now on board? We have about 5 million a month that [00:23:00] use peanut 5 million a month using it. Yeah, because isn't it, I mean, when you started, I suppose a [00:23:05] key.
Success factor was to get this to critical mass. Absolutely. You know, you go and there's no one else there, [00:23:10] so, so how do you do that? Because that's a, that's a challenge for lots of startups. It's so hard. [00:23:15] I'm so glad you mentioned it because getting critical map, people don't really think about this.
Sometimes [00:23:20] people come to me and they're like, I wanna build an app. Yes. I'm like. How do you get people [00:23:25] to do it? Yeah. There are thousands of apps released to the app store every month, thousands. And [00:23:30] we'll never hear of them. They'll never get any work. Yeah. And it's not a good enough to say, well, I'm [00:23:35] just gonna run some ads on meta.
Yeah. That won't do it either. So I think that, [00:23:40] um, you have to have a seeding plan. Who are the people that you are going [00:23:45] to seed this with? Are they gonna evangelize about the product so that they kind of share [00:23:50] and do the hard work for you? And from there, can you get enough momentum that you then start plugging [00:23:55] in other marketing strategies?
Um, and for me it was those 200 women. [00:24:00] So the people you'd spoken to before? Absolutely. You got 'em all on there. Day [00:24:05] one. I was like, launches tomorrow. Do you wanna try the beater? And they already feel a [00:24:10] connection with the business. And 200 was enough. It was enough to get going. And then I was very, very [00:24:15] fortunate that we got So you use your research pool to get going?
Exactly. They feel an emotional connection to it [00:24:20] because they've already answered questions. They already are interested and nosy enough to go and test [00:24:25] it, and from there it can grow. So you call that a seeding strategy? Yeah, seeding. I like that [00:24:30] expression. Yeah. So you just gently seed with different people and see.
And were those [00:24:35] women in the UK or in America or both? Both. Both. So you had both. Both places, but majority in the [00:24:40] us. Right. And they got to know each other. Exactly. So they don't forget. Also the [00:24:45] US is really difficult market 'cause every state is almost like a little country or a different [00:24:50] country. So you have to really understand.
East coast versus west coast versus, [00:24:55] yeah. You know, the north. Um, so there, there's lots of, there's a lot of differences. There's a lot of, [00:25:00] um, difference. And it's just about understanding that, so you, you got started, but [00:25:05] now you've got 5 million. So do, do they refer people? Is that, is there a referral?
Absolutely. [00:25:10] Yeah. So you can, so you can tell your friends. Exactly. Go and join us. Invite your friends. Um, [00:25:15] we have amazing ambassadors who we call MVPs most valuable Peanuts. Oh, [00:25:20] very good. They hold events and they invite people to join. They really [00:25:25] evangelize about peanut and in exchange, and as a appreciation they'll wear.[00:25:30]
Peanut t-shirts or tote bags, and we give them, you know, the opportunity to [00:25:35] have these, um, materials. Do you have some peanut events where you get together? Uh, we, we do [00:25:40] occasionally do them, but often it's the user base that arrange them. So they do that independently. Absolutely. [00:25:45] Because it's not scalable for peanut just to do events.
No, of course not. But scalable, I just wondered if [00:25:50] sometimes people lives come together. We do. We do. Yeah. So that's, that's the seeding strategy [00:25:55] for those listen thing you want to get going is a, is a good example. And using your research base to do that [00:26:00] work for you. Absolutely. And think about who your, um, desired audiences, [00:26:05] you know?
Yeah. If you are building a SaaS business, go into that business and say, look, I'm building [00:26:10] this and can, can I give it to you? Can you trial it for me? Yes. Um, for free. [00:26:15] And that's the best use case that you can get. You get to see it in the wild. So there's always an example of [00:26:20] how to get it out there and be able to observe it.
And the starting point doesn't need to [00:26:25] be building an app. That always makes me anxious when people say they want to. So where, where should the [00:26:30] starting point be? You can. Build an environment to test something and it's so, [00:26:35] so brilliant. Now, advance advances. When you say environment, what do you mean? So it might be if you wanted to build a [00:26:40] community product, for example, yes.
You don't have to build a community app. You can build a WhatsApp [00:26:45] group. It's free, right? You can test. Can you get people to join that group? Can you get enough engagement going? [00:26:50] What are they talking about? You can create these environments in whatever. Scenario [00:26:55] might best suit your business. Readily available technology to start with.
Absolutely. And AI is incredible. Now, you know, there are [00:27:00] no code solutions where you can build something very, very inexpensively and test it before [00:27:05] you go into the world. You just ask AI to do it. Well get a, get a, you can get a clickable [00:27:10] prototype, get it in people's hands, watch how they use it. It's very easy to do.
There are tools like Figma where you can [00:27:15] do that. Right. Um. There, there are amazing things that we, we should all be doing [00:27:20] now and but, so this is all about sort of bootstrapping something. Absolutely. It's not [00:27:25] signing huge amounts of money to build something. Exactly. You can start really small. You can [00:27:30] Exactly.
And find that out a lot and learn a lot and take it from there. Exactly. And [00:27:35] in fact that's, that's very exciting what we should all be doing. It's so exciting. This, this wave of AI is, is [00:27:40] potentially gonna create a whole lot of new businesses. I'm obsessed with it. I mean, there are, you're obsessed. I am.
[00:27:45] Why? I just think there is so much that is unknown. It is [00:27:50] doing so much for us. You know, at Peanut we had, um, large [00:27:55] language models for a very long time and we used our own that we built ourselves. So you've been using AI for a long time? [00:28:00] Yes. Before it was fashionable and a buzzword. We had our own, um, in order to, for [00:28:05] safety.
So we were using it to moderate the site to help us predict the likelihood of you being a good or a [00:28:10] bad actor on the platform, really to really keep the community safe. And that was [00:28:15] amazing. But I, so was I Your police force? Almost, but I can't do it as quickly as the [00:28:20] new LLMs that are out there. I mean, they're just, they're just amazing.
So I So you now use them, [00:28:25] do you? Absolutely. As much as I can, because I think that there are just so many [00:28:30] exciting advancements. And, and do you use 'em for other purposes? I. I always want to know who [00:28:35] AI's recommending for the best mal map. It's peanut, don't worry, but [00:28:40] I always want to check. Yeah. Of wanna keep, keep on checking that.
Of course. It, it, it is just an [00:28:45] incredible tool. What would you do if it said someone else? Oh, I'd be very upset. I would to, I would [00:28:50] have to convince it. That's it. I made some changes. How dare you? No, [00:28:55] clearly AI is very intelligent. That's all I can say. So it recommends peanut exactly as the [00:29:00] best mother.
Yeah. That was it. Yep. Okay. Well that's good to know. It is. It's amazing. [00:29:05] I only know this by the way, because a user messaged me on Peanut saying I found out about Peanut [00:29:10] through Chat GPT. Right. And I thought, that's strange. So I tested it. Well, I heard [00:29:15] the other day that Meta had taken the contents of two of my books and put them into their AI [00:29:20] engine to, uh, help people find jobs.
I wasn't sure how I felt about that because I did write the books to help [00:29:25] people progress and find jobs. Yeah. But it did feel a bit sort of abusive. [00:29:30] No, no comment on anything to do with copyright and, and that area. I think it's [00:29:35] still, it's a difficult space. Very difficult. Very difficult. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's still to be played out, [00:29:40] but, um, no.
Very interesting. Now, you, you mentioned that some [00:29:45] of your experiences. When you were going out to raise money, were less than [00:29:50] ideal in terms of your pitches and the, the questions and the responses you received. [00:29:55] You have actually done something about this, haven't you, Michelle? Yes. What have you done and, and tell [00:30:00] us, you know.
It's good. Despite massive, massive [00:30:05] progress and there has been progress, we must accept that. We do now have more women who are working at senior [00:30:10] levels in VC who have check writing capability. Absolutely. And we do have more female [00:30:15] founders. Absolutely. In fact, we talk about. Yes, female founders. We never [00:30:20] spoke about that before.
That wasn't even really a title that anyone had. So we do know that that has [00:30:25] advanced, but women still receive less than 2% of venture raised 2%, [00:30:30] and we're 50% of the population. It's a real problem. And when I was [00:30:35] first raising for peanut people talk about doing a friends and family [00:30:40] round. Yes. It's like what I've heard that expression, I was like, what is that?
Yeah. And [00:30:45] it's around where you meant to, what is that? Explain. You are meant to go and ask your friends and family to write you [00:30:50] small checks to get your business off the ground. Yes. Well, I had zero friends and family [00:30:55] who could casually write 25 to 50 K checks to get my business off the ground. Yeah, [00:31:00] I can imagine that's true of most people, right?
That was just not something that I had in my [00:31:05] network and. Or in my friends and family network anyway. And [00:31:10] furthermore, the people that I could see who were doing these friends and family rounds were, you know, [00:31:15] these young generally men in the US [00:31:20] who, who kind of had this extensive ability to do it. Um, and that for me, so [00:31:25] young, young American men had good.
Financial networks in, in the US were the people doing that? Yeah. And you know, [00:31:30] came from families where that was normal or could be done. [00:31:35] And, um, that for me is the exact point at which it's a problem, the very start because if [00:31:40] you have, uh, access to capital that early, you can [00:31:45] start to play around, test things get going before you take venture or whatever it might be.
Mm-hmm. But if [00:31:50] you don't, what do you do? How do you get your business going? So [00:31:55] I was very fortunate, um, that Bumble eventually iPod, [00:32:00] um, and we had a very good return from that. And you were a shareholder? I was. And so [00:32:05] I was very fortunate to participate and one of the first things I said was brilliant.
[00:32:10] Now I can actually do something about. Dressing the balance. So you [00:32:15] used the money that you made from your Bumble Yeah. IPO to start your own business? Yes. To, to [00:32:20] start this part. It's called, it's a micro fund. Yeah. So it's called. So yeah. So explain this. Yeah. [00:32:25] It's called Peanut Start. Her. So this is another business is it?
It, it's exactly, it's just adjacent to [00:32:30] peanut. To peanut. And basically it's called Peanut Start Her. Start Her. And we. [00:32:35] Invest small checks, micro checks. Think of us as like your rich auntie that you [00:32:40] didn't have. So your friends and family. We are your friends and family. You're the one that you never had.
That's it. We are your rich auntie [00:32:45] who can write you a 20 K check or a 20 5K check to keep you going. To [00:32:50] get started. Get started. And more than that, because most importantly, it's not just [00:32:55] about that first check, it's about access to a network. I wish I knew when [00:33:00] I was younger, how important a network is.
I never understood. Networking. No one [00:33:05] ever explained it to me. I didn't know why it was important. And so I've got a group of women [00:33:10] and we look at these businesses that come in and, uh, we decide which one [00:33:15] we're going to invest in, and then we open our networks. So that might be [00:33:20] PR, marketing, uh, vc, and we make referrals to all these [00:33:25] different, um, people in our network to help.
That's so interesting. So, so [00:33:30] how much money is in the Auntie Peanuts fund? Auntie Peanut? Well, well, it was [00:33:35] available. It's it's variable. It's variable, but, but it's, remember, have you built, is it like a venture capitalists do [00:33:40] funding rounds? It's, it's, have you done that? No, no, no. You're not doing, it's not, no.
So it's a bit sort of, it's much [00:33:45] more, um, reactive, I would say, to the opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. And you think you're doing that [00:33:50] maybe one day? I think that might be an interesting thing to explore, because yeah, maybe one day you'll [00:33:55] network and experience. Exactly. Maybe one day you could create a. Venture fund.
I would love to do [00:34:00] that. Yeah. You know, we need to see more, um, exciting [00:34:05] businesses, um, being showcased. By women because women make [00:34:10] incredible businesses, which are um, highly revenue [00:34:15] generative, but also solve problems. Not exclusively, mostly. Well, I'm completely, 'cause my first [00:34:20] boss was a wonderful entrepreneur called Anita Roddick, who started the Body Shop.
The Body Shop, [00:34:25] and wrote, I wrote her 'cause I wanted to work for her and learn from her. As a student and she was kind enough to gimme a job [00:34:30] with her husband, Gordon and yeah, amazing entrepreneur and yeah, [00:34:35] so I, and it's obvious to me that that's the case and also that half the population being women are [00:34:40] probably not as well served.
It is, it is as they could be if, well, women ran businesses [00:34:45] and started businesses and were supported in doing so. It's about kind of encouraging young [00:34:50] women to think that they can and they should, um, but also. We have to [00:34:55] be realistic. There are many moments of time that women might want to take that [00:35:00] leap to start that journey to be an entrepreneur.
And at that moment in time, they [00:35:05] have children, mortgage bills, responsibilities, and it feels impossible. [00:35:10] Um, and so I think there is a lot of work to be done around the fact that actually so [00:35:15] many women, um, who are in that. Kind of familial life stage [00:35:20] actually have these incredible business opportunities and ideas and we should be able to support them.[00:35:25]
Those are real sort of challenges, aren't they? They, they're, absolutely. So, I mean, how, how did, how did [00:35:30] you navigate them yourself, and how would you advise? I mean, other women at that life stage? Yeah. Who [00:35:35] wanna start a business to approach it? It was really hard. I, and I was [00:35:40] really fortunate, so I would never pretend otherwise.
I had saved. A lot of [00:35:45] money in order to have a war chest to start this business. I did not go in with [00:35:50] nothing and think I'm just gonna do it from nothing. I had, I could boot bootstrap my [00:35:55] first, you know, four months. So I had done that. Uh, the second thing is I had to de-risk, [00:36:00] so I had to stay on the board of the companies to get, have some income.
It was quite passive [00:36:05] and so it was great. So you're like a non-exec. Exactly. So I'd stayed on the board of Bumble and Badoo, so I had [00:36:10] this. A small amount of money where I could have that income, and that was really important [00:36:15] to me. And the third thing was, if it all went. To the wall. [00:36:20] I could go back in and, you know, carry on doing what I was doing before.
Um, but I [00:36:25] remember reading at the time. Yeah, that's an important thing to remember. 'cause that's true of everyone in a way. You [00:36:30] know, you take a risk with starting something, but there are always other options if it doesn't work. You know, I [00:36:35] spoke to someone yesterday and he said to me sometimes the biggest risk is taking no risk at all.
[00:36:40] I think that is always the biggest risk. Yeah. And I was like this, it's true. Sometimes you get so [00:36:45] paralyzed by the thought of what if it doesn't, but what if it does? You know? Yeah. The what if it does [00:36:50] doesn't get enough attention. Yeah. In our culture, I feel to totally, and, and actually it is a [00:36:55] very British thing.
I think in America. The what of it does is much more [00:37:00] celebrated and applauded. And I think, uh, we need a little bit more of that optimism here. [00:37:05] Yeah. Let's sort of have a go hero approach. Yeah, let's have a go. What's the worst? Yeah. What's the worst? So [00:37:10] we go back to doing something similar to what you did before.
Exactly. Exactly. And the world keeps turning. Michelle, you, you [00:37:15] just explained that you were able to use some of the equity. You had in, [00:37:20] um, to start your next Venture Peanut. Um, [00:37:25] can you just roll back the clock a little bit and. Explain to me why you [00:37:30] joined that business and what advantages, if any there are of joining a small business [00:37:35] like that would've been when you started.
Yeah. I think it's really important to decide what you want to do, [00:37:40] but you can't underestimate how important it's to join a smaller team [00:37:45] in a small team. You get to touch everything. You can absolutely [00:37:50] insert yourself into conversations and meetings and decisions that you might not be able [00:37:55] to. Um, in a huge organization.
It doesn't suit everyone, but if you really do have that hunger to [00:38:00] learn, if you are curious, if you want to build in the future, um, but for me [00:38:05] being in, you know, one of the earlier employees in Badoo and then being there [00:38:10] for, you know, the inception of Bumble. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing [00:38:15] now. Um, and so there were definitely people at the time who were [00:38:20] probably raised eyebrow, but that's the route that I was going to take.
I was working in biotech, so it [00:38:25] was very different, right. Um, organization and, and stability and, [00:38:30] and structure. Um, but for me it was just so exciting to get to be in, in the [00:38:35] room, even if I didn't get to do anything at the start. And it was just listening. It just so happened that I [00:38:40] listened and then asked, and then did a bit more of that.
So, so what you're saying, someone listening is [00:38:45] if, if, if you think in the future you might like to have a go at being an entrepreneur or starting [00:38:50] a business. A really good way of training and learning is joining a smaller business where you're [00:38:55] right in the thick of it. We've all been there where you've interviewed someone who's worked at a really big, [00:39:00] uh, company, and you ask them what they've been doing and their [00:39:05] experience is so narrow.
And you know, that might be fine if they're on a certain trajectory, [00:39:10] but narrow experience means that you might be very deep [00:39:15] and narrow, um, in your experience. But that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone [00:39:20] who can get involved and learn quickly and adapt, [00:39:25] um, and. It does mean that in a smaller company you can do those things.
I [00:39:30] know if you've worked for a smaller business, you will have done everything. Um, and that is really [00:39:35] exciting. But there, there are certain risks involved with smaller businesses aren't there? Of course. I mean, you know, [00:39:40] and their viability is one. I suppose you don't know what that's going to look like, but [00:39:45] again.
Uh, for me that's just part of the journey and it's exciting and I [00:39:50] must just say it again, it's not forever. If you join a business and it doesn't work out, go to [00:39:55] the next one. You know exactly that. That's fine. Um, there are plenty of huge businesses that [00:40:00] we don't talk about anymore 'cause they've disappeared.
So, um, I don't think that that's exclusive to [00:40:05] a small business. It's just being adaptable, um, and being willing to just. [00:40:10] Get stuck into something else. No. Seeing, I think that seeing a career as a [00:40:15] series of learning opportunities as well. Definitely. Definitely. It's really interesting. When I was younger, I [00:40:20] definitely only appreciated, like, here are the professions chose one.
[00:40:25] I thought that would be my entire life. Um, and it wasn't until I was doing it that I was [00:40:30] like, I don't love this enough to do this all the time that I started thinking about what could be [00:40:35] next. Right. And that, I mean, that's true of so many people. Absolutely. And there's always [00:40:40] something next. There's al, there's always something next, and if there isn't, you can always go back.
Yeah. [00:40:45] I think the, I mean the great thing is if you are in a small business and it's sort [00:40:50] of maybe not flying as well as Yeah, you would hope, I mean you can actually have an [00:40:55] idea or make a contribution to improve that as well. You can, you can be in the sort of Yes and you will be [00:41:00] heard because actually it's welcome.
Your input is welcome and it's invited. Um, [00:41:05] and that I think is. Incredibly exciting. Yeah. I think it's important to be [00:41:10] in a, in an environment where ideas are appreciated, championed and [00:41:15] followed through. I wouldn't be able to work in a situation where I wasn't able to, [00:41:20] um, discuss with everyone in my team an idea and feel like everyone was [00:41:25] contributing.
That just wouldn't suit me, ever. So you ask them actively for their ideas? Always. Always. [00:41:30] We, we talk all the time, you know, we're constantly, what's the, what's the question you ask? [00:41:35] Um, what should we do about this? What should we do? Yeah. What should we do about it? This didn't work. What should we do [00:41:40] about it?
And it's, it makes it a collective problem. Yeah. Um, and everyone's got [00:41:45] ideas and everyone has a different vantage point. You know, you might be a gamer, [00:41:50] your vantage point and solution will be totally different to mine. Right. Amazing. [00:41:55] So you're gonna get a whole variety of inputs. Exactly. And it's your responsibility as the [00:42:00] CEO to make sure that happens.
I'm hearing to, to get it. Otherwise you're not doing a job really well. [00:42:05] What are, what am I there to do if, if not, to make sure that we've got the best, my only [00:42:10] role I see is keep the lights on. Yeah. And to make sure I've got the best, [00:42:15] best possible team. Who then have the freedom to, to build and run. I love that [00:42:20] CEO's job.
Keep the lights on and have the best possible team. That's it. Right. And you know, there are many, [00:42:25] many times during this journey where I'm like, what if this, you know, all goes [00:42:30] wrong tomorrow. And one of my very, very good girlfriends from law school said to me, [00:42:35] well then I'll still look at you and think you're amazing.
You're my hero. And you stepped out of doing what we were doing in something [00:42:40] else. So, yeah. So you started out at law school? I did. I was a lawyer. So you were a lawyer first? Yeah. [00:42:45] I was, do you know many lawyers who have become entrepreneurs? I mean, it's not a natural [00:42:50] progression, I would say. No, I'm, I'm not aware of many.
Yeah, there aren't many. 'cause we are trained in a totally different [00:42:55] way. That's what I was wondering. Yeah. We're trained to avoid risk. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. I was [00:43:00] talking to a colleague in our legal team about a risk that hits the scene that had grown. [00:43:05] Yeah, it's quite a weird, I mean, when I was walking into your office, I was so excited 'cause I was like, God, I used to love [00:43:10] walking down here.
You know, it always felt very special. Well, some people listening were in Chancery Lane, which is this sort legal center. The heart. [00:43:15] The heart. They're just behind the royal courts of justice. So it was always, for me, it was [00:43:20] such a, you know, a thrill and it is still thrilling. I still felt it when I was walking down here.
It was [00:43:25] amazing feeling. Um, so you enjoyed being a lawyer. Think I [00:43:30] loved, I loved a lot of the ceremony and the kind of discipline around it, [00:43:35] and I'm, I'm so happy that I did what I did in the trajectory I had, um, because it [00:43:40] taught me things that I, you know, couldn't have hoped to learn elsewhere. But that's another really interesting thing [00:43:45] is that you can have one career and then something very different and enjoy and be successful in God, [00:43:50] definitely.
But you are an exemplar of this. I will. Having, having been a successful lawyer and [00:43:55] then. You know, moving into the digital venture space, my mom will still tell you I'm [00:44:00] a lawyer. That's her proudest moment. So you better not tell her any different. Yeah. Well, hopefully she won't be [00:44:05] upset by this podcast.
That's still her proudest moment. But [00:44:10] it's it's true. It's you, it's not one route and that's the only reach. I think [00:44:15] maybe what, what is that about Moms being pleased when people become, because it is a job that's. Pretty [00:44:20] secure, I suppose. Think there's always gonna be litigation, isn't that? Yeah, I think um, lawyers are always gonna be [00:44:25] needed.
I think for my mom actually it was that kind of have a profession. Exactly that and that felt like [00:44:30] a, you know, a profession. Well, there was medicine or the law or accounting or accounting or [00:44:35] teaching. They were the options she gave me actually. So I were, they, I went with, well, there's a lot to be said for that.
I went with Laura. Yeah, [00:44:40] those, there, there's some ongoing demands for those. Thing. Totally. But then they, they, they are different from [00:44:45] being an entrepreneur and stepping out into a, it's totally different, some unknown space, like you've done totally [00:44:50] different. But I, I learned a lot. I, you know, when I joined Bodu, I joined as their council.[00:44:55]
I joined as gc. Oh, did you? And so, so you went there as their in-house lawyer? Absolutely. [00:45:00] And I just am so nosy and asked so many questions and, [00:45:05] um, became responsible for setting up so much functionality outside of legal, [00:45:10] um, that I started working with the founder right, and became his right hand. And, and that's [00:45:15] how I kind of progressed through it.
And I learnt so much from him and I'm so grateful and, um, [00:45:20] fortunate to have been in that position. So that's interesting. 'cause the risk aspect might be different, but the [00:45:25] curiosity bit is really connect. Absolutely. A good attorney is very [00:45:30] curious. Well, because also you have license to be, you are the lawyer, so everyone tell you, [00:45:35] everyone tells you everything.
Yeah. They feel they have to, they're like, let me confess, it's like being a priest. Oh, is it? [00:45:40] Yeah, a little bit. So I've never been a priest. I can only imagine. So, but [00:45:45] no, I've never been a lawyer or a priest. So I'm fascinated. But I think it is sort of this [00:45:50] curiosity is, is so. Critical, isn't it? To coming up with new ideas and [00:45:55] Absolutely.
Absolutely. And, and, and using it to try and solve problems and innovation. You know that there is [00:46:00] what you asked me earlier about AI and I said I'm obsessed with it and I am, but there is one downside to it, which [00:46:05] is there is an element of lacking you. You start to reduce your curiosity a little [00:46:10] bit.
I'll give you an example. You're searching for something, um, and you know, our [00:46:15] immediate. Reflex is to go for Google and you do, you know, you do a [00:46:20] search and when you are looking for the answer, you start reading around the the area. [00:46:25] So something triggers where you're like, oh, that's interesting. I must come back and read more about that.
But that wasn't what I was looking for [00:46:30] right now. And obviously the evolution of AI is, it's so advanced, you don't [00:46:35] have to do any reading around, gives you a summary. It just gets right to the heart of the answer. And so you [00:46:40] ha we have to be alert to that as curious people that we can't. Dull that [00:46:45] curiosity and we have to find it in other ways.
Yeah. For, yeah. I mean, if you just sort of [00:46:50] channeled down a particular route, yeah. That doesn't work. It is a risk for the [00:46:55] curiosity requirement. It's a risk. Mm-hmm. That's interesting. And Google are doing that more and more, aren't they, with their [00:47:00] AI summaries? Absolutely. AI overview. Yeah. And even if you don't Google and you go straight, straight [00:47:05] to perplexity or chat GPT or whatever you use.
You're spoonfed an [00:47:10] answer. You know, you, you can go and be curious and read around the links that they might serve you, but [00:47:15] ultimately you don't. So Michelle, I'd like to get a sort of overview from you about what's [00:47:20] next for Peanut. So where are you headed with this? What? What do you wanna do? Well, domination.
I hope. [00:47:25] Well, domination. So how, I hope so. How's that look? Where do you begin? We launch in Germany later this [00:47:30] year, which is really exciting. A new market. It's our first year, new language, first European [00:47:35] market outside of, uh, UK and Ireland, I should say. Um, so. [00:47:40] We have a new language and that's very exciting.
And obviously, again, AI makes that. When do you [00:47:45] choose Germany? Um, it's a big, exciting market. We get quite a lot of demand actually for the [00:47:50] product in Germany. Um, so we've already got some customers. Exactly right. So that's quite [00:47:55] interesting, exciting. And I think AI has really opened up our ability to get into new markets more quickly, [00:48:00] um, from a translation and localization perspective.
So that's exciting. Um, and [00:48:05] we have a book which comes out in September, which is called, it Takes a Village. [00:48:10] And it takes a village. I know that expression. Yeah, because why don't you complete it? It takes a village [00:48:15] to raise a child as the expression, but it also takes a village to raise a mother. We spend a [00:48:20] lot of time on peanut looking at the stories of women, how they've made it work, how they find their village, [00:48:25] and particularly in that first year of baby, so will I ever sleep again?
Will I ever [00:48:30] feel like myself again? Is it normal? All of those feelings coupled with yes. [00:48:35] I feel lonely, or I don't want to admit how I'm feeling, or whatever it might be. So this is lots [00:48:40] of different women's stories of how they've made it work coupled with, um, [00:48:45] experts, so therapists, gynecologists, doulas giving kind of their, their thoughts [00:48:50] on it too.
So it's a really, really. Amazing, essential read for that kind of first [00:48:55] year. So why did you, I mean, in this digital age, why did you do a book? Because what we're still looking [00:49:00] for, and, and this is, it was a, a question that I asked when we were first approached [00:49:05] about it. Why are we doing a book? Because peanut already has all of those women sharing those stories every day.[00:49:10]
Yes. That's what, that's sort of what I'm wondering. Yeah, it's a, a book feels like a bit of an old Exactly. [00:49:15] Legacy idea. What does the book do? Yeah, so the book highlights these stories in a different way. [00:49:20] So it's not real time as it's happening. These are women's stories as they reflect, maybe 'cause [00:49:25] you're a single mom, maybe because culturally you live with your in-laws and extended family.
[00:49:30] Uh, maybe because you are. New to the UK or new to the US or wherever it might be. And so [00:49:35] it's, it's really, um, a curated highlight of those different examples [00:49:40] so that every woman feels, they can see her own situation there and find that kind of [00:49:45] relevance. And you can do that on peanut every day, of course.
But to have that curated kind [00:49:50] of list that you can take with you and examples that you can take with you with the overlay of experts, [00:49:55] I think is the difference here. So you are the, are you, you said we, but are, are you the author of the book? It's, it's [00:50:00] all the women's stories. It's all women. So crowd sources.
I absolutely, all the women from Peanut Who to [00:50:05] say Buy Peanut. It says Peanut, yeah. Okay. And the community of Peanut. So that's the, so, [00:50:10] so how do we find this book? How do people pre-order this book if they want to? Michelle? Yes. Please go. Please [00:50:15] tell me. Please go and pre-order our book. You can go onto Amazon or onto [00:50:20] Waterstones.
Um, and uh, you can look for, it Takes a Village by Peanut. [00:50:25] Takes a village by Peanut. So I hope Peanut is a bestselling author. Thank you. Very sweet. [00:50:30] So do I. Yeah, we need that. I, well, I, I like doing books. I, I, and I think there's something [00:50:35] about them. I, I sort of, I was slightly mischievous in asking, why are you doing it?
'cause I, we do it [00:50:40] too. Yeah. But I think they, they hold information and you can put your best ideas in a book or your best [00:50:45] stories as you were saying. It's, it's, that will help and inspire and inform other people. It's something about [00:50:50] curation, it's something about being able to dip in and out of it. And, [00:50:55] and hold that moment of, oh, I must go back and refer to that.
Um, that I think is really [00:51:00] important. And if, like me, when I was having my, um, son, I must have [00:51:05] read every book going and there was nothing in there that told me how to. [00:51:10] Mom, actually it told me, you know, it is surprisingly the development. Yeah. [00:51:15] We, we go to school, we get all this education and no one tells us how to be parents.
[00:51:20] Really? You have no clue. I didn't know what I was doing. That's kind of an important job. It's [00:51:25] the most, arguably, arguably the most important in the world, right. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's [00:51:30] interesting 'cause we, you know, I'm aware that sort of 80% of managers in the UK receive no formal [00:51:35] training. Wow. But you, you could probably say a hundred percent of parents receive no formal training.
We, [00:51:40] we get no formal training. And isn't that that an odd thing, isn't it? It's so strange. And therefore, if you [00:51:45] have something which will guide you, not to tell you. How to do it, but to give you examples [00:51:50] of what has worked for other people, um, and to give you advice from [00:51:55] experts who can say, you know, yeah, scientifically, this is hormonally how you're feeling and [00:52:00] this is why, and this too shall pass, for example.
That actually would've been [00:52:05] really, really life-changing for me. I really struggled when I had Finn and I [00:52:10] would've really appreciated someone saying, it's actually very, very normal and here's what's gonna happen next. [00:52:15] And then you're gonna be through it, for example, and you, you can find that. On peanut exactly right.[00:52:20]
I can see that that's hugely valuable to people. It was, it, it, it really is quite know Lifechanging, I can see [00:52:25] why AI would recommend it as the best 'cause. Thank you. I mean that would be, I mean, I remember [00:52:30] we have six children. I remember when the first one was born and was sort of screaming all night [00:52:35] thinking, how long does this last, because I've gotta go to work tomorrow and I'm not getting any sleep.
That's right. I mean, I [00:52:40] remember driving Finn around in the car, there's one to ask. You don't know what you're doing is that like, you [00:52:45] know, he didn't even like being in the car seat, but I felt like he would get some kind of motion. I mean, the whole thing was very, very [00:52:50] strange time. We used to go for walks up the edge where road late at night.
Yeah, exactly. [00:52:55] With a baby in the pram. Exactly. So she'd go to sleep. But it, but, and I, I [00:53:00] suppose it's very useful what you're offering because. One's own parents I recall, couldn't really [00:53:05] remember. You know, I can't really remember all the stages of absolutely having small children now. [00:53:10] Absolutely. And that's assuming you've got your parents around, you know, for many people your parents are in different [00:53:15] countries or you don't have them anymore.
Um, or for whatever reason they're not involved in your [00:53:20] life. What do you do? You know, there are some skills. Skills. We've got some great friends whose kids are a little bit older than us, so [00:53:25] I just watch and see what that's happening there. That's helps me prepare for what's next, what's [00:53:30] coming. Yeah. Yeah.
It's good. So you can help people connect and find each other. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's fantastic. [00:53:35] And, and what a wonderful idea that you, you've brought into development. Thank you. Have a wonderful service. And you say it [00:53:40] improves the world a little bit every day. Exactly. I, I like that mantra. [00:53:45] So I'm gonna ask you, Michelle, before we wrap up, just two questions.
Yep. [00:53:50] Um, and I ask everyone these questions. Okay? Okay. The first is what gets you [00:53:55] up on a Monday morning? Oh, I love, I love what I do. I thought you were gonna [00:54:00] say I love Mondays. I do. I do love Mondays. No, you close, you. Do you love what you [00:54:05] do's good? No, but I do. I do. I really love what I do. I love, I. There is [00:54:10] something that I framed a few years ago because I, you know, there are tough days and [00:54:15] I thought, how lucky am I that I get to do this?
This is my actual job. I get to do this. I get to go [00:54:20] into work, work with people who are infinitely smarter than me, and we get to [00:54:25] build something that has a positive impact on women's lives. Like how lucky am I that I get to [00:54:30] do that? And I think framing is everything. So, um. I love what I do and I [00:54:35] do love Mondays.
Actually. If I ask what you say, I think framing is everything. That's an interesting thought. What, [00:54:40] what do you mean? I think that, um, sometimes you by accident [00:54:45] fall into the, oh, I have to go to work. I have to do this. Mm-hmm. And [00:54:50] actually it's really easy to change it and say, I, I get to do this. We were, we are doing a [00:54:55] campaign at the moment and we're working with a brand that I really love and admire and we were working [00:55:00] on this piece of marketing content.
I. Said to my team, how lucky are we that we get to do this? [00:55:05] Like for me, I think that is absolutely thrilling. Um, but it goes back to, because you're gonna have those hard [00:55:10] days, you better absolutely love what you do so that you do get up and love Mondays. Yeah. [00:55:15] Well I like that. And then my final question, which is a question from my interview book.
[00:55:20] Book, yeah. But why you 101 interview questions you'll never fear again is [00:55:25] where do you see yourself in five years time? Great question. Um, I. [00:55:30] Love peanut. And so I hope that we're still building and continuing this [00:55:35] legacy. It's like the greatest honor of my life to build this business. So I, I hope that we're still continuing [00:55:40] to, to build there.
Um, and you know, maybe I'll have a go at that fund you [00:55:45] mentioned at some point. I think that would be fabulous. Nice. Well, I think it'd be a, a, a, a good contribution to the [00:55:50] sort of UK business landscape. I love that. Yeah. I think that would be, I'm gonna say that you are, you are [00:55:55] my first lp. Yeah. Well, we'll, we'll join you in after this in Endeavor.
We talk after if [00:56:00] we're allowed. And, and also I think, um, what you're doing expanding into other geographies will be [00:56:05] very interesting to follow. Do you have other countries after Germany in mind? Oh, yes. Well, then we have to [00:56:10] go across Europe, so we have to do the, the Spain and France and, and follow [00:56:15] that route.
But it, it's really exciting to me. Um, we, we generally [00:56:20] follow the noise of what's happening, um, in the user base. And so we launched in [00:56:25] Mexico as our first out of US UK market. Right. And that was because women in [00:56:30] Mexico were using the US App Store to Access Peanut and we f see it. Fantastic. So is a is an [00:56:35] now Spanish version in development?
Exactly, yes there is. Yeah. So, 'cause these are widely spoken languages. [00:56:40] Absolutely. So it's very exciting. Fantastic. Well I wish you continued success and thank you very much and [00:56:45] I you come back one day and show us Thank you. Oh, you've done since. Thank you very much. That's very interesting. Follow. Thanks for coming [00:56:50] to Thank you for having me.
Real pleasure, [00:56:55] [00:57:00] [00:57:05][00:57:10] [00:57:15] Michelle.
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